Thoughts on the Flat Earth folks

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November 13th, 2017 at 8:10:49 AM permalink
pew
Member since: Jan 8, 2013
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Quote: Wizard
Indeed.



As you can see, according to the bible, the earth is a circle, not a sphere.

That quote IS saying the earth is a sphere. The bible also says the Earth hangs on nothing. People who want to degrade scripture read whatever they can into it so that it fits their narrative but this flat Earth thing is a little bit ridiculous. There are much better arguments against God and the bible for people who claim adulthood to discuss.
November 13th, 2017 at 8:11:51 AM permalink
Nareed
Member since: Oct 24, 2012
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Quote: Dalex64
as for that grasshoppers quote, I suppose it depends on what they meant by 'circle'


Since the days of Euclid, it means a two-dimensional figure.

Quote:
they simply may not have had any words that differentiated circles and spheres, perhaps much like the word "round"


Oh, no. There were distinct words. Ideas about the universe at the time had the universe organized as concentric spheres with the Earth at the center. Successive spheres contained the Moon, Sun, planets and stars. So if the ancients, or the compilers of the King James version, had meant "sphere" they'd have said sphere.
If Trump where half as smart as he thinks he is, he'd be twice as smart as he really is.
November 13th, 2017 at 8:12:40 AM permalink
odiousgambit
Member since: Oct 28, 2012
Threads: 82
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Quote: Wizard
As you can see [image of earth in a circle]


Interesting that there is the north pole in the middle and that Antarctica [apparently] forms the outer edge.

So, I have to take it back, the edge of the earth has been seen!
Mustard:You like Kipling, Miss Scarlet? Sure, I'll eat anything [from movie]
November 13th, 2017 at 11:07:07 AM permalink
Evenbob
Member since: Oct 24, 2012
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Quote: pew
People who want to degrade scripture read whatever they can into it so that it


So called 'scripture' does a good job
of degrading itself. The word scripture
means 'holy writings' coming from
god. I don't recognize them as any such
thing, their mostly just gobblygook crap
that is much ado about nothing.
If you take a risk, you may lose. If you never take a risk, you will always lose.
November 13th, 2017 at 12:27:00 PM permalink
Dalex64
Member since: Mar 8, 2014
Threads: 2
Posts: 2070
Quote: Nareed
Since the days of Euclid, it means a two-dimensional figure.
Quote:


Euclid came after the book of Isaiah, so how he defined a circle is irrelevant.

Euclid, active c323-283 BCE
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Euclid

Quote: Isaiah 40:22
It is he who sits above the circle of the earth, and its inhabitants are like grasshoppers; who stretches out the heavens like a curtain, and spreads them like a tent to live in;


Book of Isaiah, specifically 40-55, written 586-539 BCE
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dating_the_Bible

This has nothing to do with whether or not the people at the time thought the earth was flat.

While not saying what they believed in, I think this site says that the circle of the earth is just the horizon, and isn't saying anything about the geometric shape of the planet.

http://www.crivoice.org/circle.html
"Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts." Daniel Patrick Moynihan
November 13th, 2017 at 12:31:00 PM permalink
Wizard
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Quote: Dalex64
as for that grasshoppers quote, I suppose it depends on what they meant by 'circle'
they simply may not have had any words that differentiated circles and spheres, perhaps much like the word "round"


Quote: Isaiah 22:18
He will surely violently turn and toss thee like a ball into a large country: there shalt thou die, and there the chariots of thy glory shall be the shame of thy lord's house.


They clearly had a term for "ball." Why not use that term if the earth were spherical?
Knowledge is Good -- Emil Faber
November 13th, 2017 at 1:01:44 PM permalink
Nareed
Member since: Oct 24, 2012
Threads: 332
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Quote: Wizard
They clearly had a term for "ball." Why not use that term if the earth were spherical?


What child hasn't asked why the people on the "bottom" part of the Earth don't fall off? I can imagine primitive peoples having that same reaction, thus refusing to believe the Earth is a sphere.

it also depends a lot on the kind of culture. The Greeks were big on philosophy, which meant asking questions about the natural world and coming up with answers (mostly wrong answers, naturally, but they did some amazing things for the times as well). the Hebrews were not, or at least not in regards to the natural world. Come on, the world looks flat from the surface. If you stand in the desert away from mountains, you see a hemispherical blue cover all around, clearly meeting the flat ground at the horizon.

The curvature of the Earth is so small, we pay it little heed. We behave as though the world is flat most of the time. We make flat maps, which are perfectly serviceable. When you see great circle routes for airplanes and ships drawn on a map, which do take the curvature into account, they seem weird and circuitous.

We know the Earth is, in Asimov's words, an oblate spheroid with a few minor irregularities, because we learn that in school. I wonder, though, how many students actually learn the proofs that this is so (I know I did).
If Trump where half as smart as he thinks he is, he'd be twice as smart as he really is.
November 13th, 2017 at 1:11:57 PM permalink
Pacomartin
Member since: Oct 24, 2012
Threads: 761
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Quote: Wizard
They clearly had a term for "ball." Why not use that term if the earth were spherical?


To criticize Isaiah for not knowing something that may not have been universally understood for centuries after his death seems unfair.
In 1761, Lambert proved that π is irrational . We don't criticize Archimedes for not knowing that π was irrational. Archimedes calculated π to a precision that was not matched for centuries, but he never realized it was irrational.

The traditional view is that all 66 chapters of the book of Isaiah were written by one man, Isaiah, possibly in two periods between 740 BCE and c. 686 BCE,

Pythagoras of Samos c. 570–495 BC was among those said to have originated the idea, but this may reflect the ancient Greek practice of ascribing every discovery to one or another of their ancient wise men.

Parmenides of Elea ( late sixth or early fifth century BC) was was the founder of the Eleatic school of philosophy. Parmenides alluded to the spherical nature of Earth in the single poem we have that he wrote.

The unequivocal comments that we have are from Plato, roughly three centuries after Isaiah.
Plato (427–347 BC) taught his students that Earth was a sphere though he offered no justifications. "My conviction is that the Earth is a round body in the centre of the heavens, and therefore has no need of air or of any similar force to be a support". If man could soar high above the clouds, Earth would resemble "one of those balls which have leather coverings in twelve pieces, and is decked with various colours, of which the colours used by painters on Earth are in a manner samples."
November 13th, 2017 at 1:12:49 PM permalink
Wizard
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Quote: Nareed
What child hasn't asked why the people on the "bottom" part of the Earth don't fall off? I can imagine primitive peoples having that same reaction, thus refusing to believe the Earth is a sphere.


I think that is a cornerstone of the Flat Earth believers argument. Once I saw a believer on TV say something to the effect of, "My aunt Jennie, who lives in Australia, doesn't fall off the earth, or hang from it by her toenails, thus the argument of a spherical earth is a bunch of hooey."

Quote:
I wonder, though, how many students actually learn the proofs that this is so (I know I did).


Nobody ever proved it to me. It was just taught as fact. I would be interested to know what the proofs are.
Knowledge is Good -- Emil Faber
November 13th, 2017 at 1:15:43 PM permalink
Wizard
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More biblical support for a flat earth:

Quote: I Samuel 2:8
For the pillars of the earth are the Lord’s, and on them he has set the world.
Knowledge is Good -- Emil Faber
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