Thoughts on the Flat Earth folks

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November 13th, 2017 at 1:27:49 PM permalink
Pacomartin
Member since: Oct 24, 2012
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Quote: Wizard
Nobody ever proved it to me. It was just taught as fact. I would be interested to know what the proofs are.


Archimedes is a contemporary of Greek astronomers such as Eratosthenes that the Earth is a sphere.

Eratosthenes calculated the circumference of the Earth, the tilt of the Earth's axis (both with remarkable accuracy). He may have accurately calculated the distance from the Earth to the Sun and invented the leap day. Erosthenes produced the first world map which assumed a spherical globe.


Note the concept of an equator. He also got the Tropic of Cancer about the correct latitude even if he had only a rough idea about some of the shapes of bodies of water.


Archimedes spells out the law of equilibrium of fluids, and proves that water will adopt a spherical form around a center of gravity.This may have been an attempt at proving the theory of Erastosthenes.

Some people say the theory was only "proven" in 1520 when the first voyage was made all the way around the world.
November 13th, 2017 at 1:31:14 PM permalink
odiousgambit
Member since: Oct 28, 2012
Threads: 92
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Quote: Wizard
They clearly had a term for "ball." Why not use that term if the earth were spherical?


I would be astonished to learn that ancient Israelis thought the earth was a sphere ... you are missing the point

Quote: Wizard
More biblical support for a flat earth... [I Samuel 2:8, earth put on pillars]
yet a sphere could be put on pillars

the point you are missing is that I agree the ancient Israelis had a concept of the earth that was basically 'flat earth' and certainly unlikely to be that of a ball

but I say any biblical literalist, even one with zero tolerance for contradiction of the Bible, has no original reason to reject the notion of a spherical earth. I say he has to extrapolate the idea of a flat earth out of the Bible, and though he would probably be correctly placing the early Israeli notions no doubt, that is irrelevant. It has been a mischievous bit of nonsense from the beginning.
Mustard:You like Kipling, Miss Scarlet? Sure, I'll eat anything [from movie]
November 13th, 2017 at 2:20:21 PM permalink
Dalex64
Member since: Mar 8, 2014
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I think what you have is ancient authors and people who may or may not have thought the earth was flat (certainly not all of them did)

contrast that to now, where you have:
people who are claiming the bible is invalid because it describes the earth sometimes using 'flat' terms
people who are claiming the earth is flat because the bible sometimes describes the earth using 'flat' terms and everything (at least everything that is convenient to them) in the bible is true. Lump the young earthers in here too.
"Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts." Daniel Patrick Moynihan
November 13th, 2017 at 2:39:36 PM permalink
Nareed
Member since: Oct 24, 2012
Threads: 345
Posts: 12535
Quote: Wizard
Nobody ever proved it to me. It was just taught as fact. I would be interested to know what the proofs are.


1) When you see a ship sail towards the horizon, you'll notice the hull goes under the horizon before the mast or smokestack.

2) The Earth's shadow over the Moon during a Lunar eclipse is always circular. A sphere always casts a circular shadow, whereas a disk does not.

3) You can see photos taken from space.

4) there are high-altitude photos that show the curvature clearly.
Donald Trump is a fucking liar
November 13th, 2017 at 3:26:36 PM permalink
Evenbob
Member since: Oct 24, 2012
Threads: 121
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Quote: Nareed
1) When you see a ship sail towards the horizon, you'll notice the hull goes under the horizon before the mast or smokestack.
.


When I drop a ball on my dining
room floor, it rolls to the wall. Of
course my house was built in 1854,
there is that..
If you take a risk, you may lose. If you never take a risk, you will always lose.
November 13th, 2017 at 3:54:25 PM permalink
Wizard
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Quote: odiousgambit
but I say any biblical literalist, even one with zero tolerance for contradiction of the Bible, has no original reason to reject the notion of a spherical earth. I say he has to extrapolate the idea of a flat earth out of the Bible, and though he would probably be correctly placing the early Israeli notions no doubt, that is irrelevant. It has been a mischievous bit of nonsense from the beginning.


You are the one missing the point.

Conservative Christians believe the bible is 100.0000000% without error. However, ask most about passages arguing a flat earth and suddenly the bible becomes poetic and figurative. However, change the topic to the story of creation or the death penalty for homosexuals and suddenly it is to be taken literally.
Knowledge is Good -- Emil Faber
November 13th, 2017 at 4:23:13 PM permalink
Pacomartin
Member since: Oct 24, 2012
Threads: 851
Posts: 10166
Quote: Wizard
You are the one missing the point.

Conservative Christians believe the bible is 100.0000000% without error. However, ask most about passages arguing a flat earth and suddenly the bible becomes poetic and figurative. However, change the topic to the story of creation or the death penalty for homosexuals and suddenly it is to be taken literally.


Roughly 1/3 believe the Bible is the "actual" word of God. Roughly 1/2 believe in an "inspired" word of God.


Personally, I would not find these passages as meant to be "scientific", but then I believe the story of Creation is meant to poetic.

Matthew 4:8: "Again, the devil taketh him up into an exceeding high mountain, and sheweth him all the kingdoms of the world"
Luke 4:5: "And the devil, taking him up into an high mountain, shewed unto him all the kingdoms of the world in a moment of time."
Revelation 7:1 "And after these things I saw four angels standing on four corners of the earth, holding the four winds of the earth, that the wind should not blow on the earth, nor on the sea, nor on any tree."
November 13th, 2017 at 4:24:40 PM permalink
Nareed
Member since: Oct 24, 2012
Threads: 345
Posts: 12535
Quote: Dalex64
people who are claiming the bible is invalid because it describes the earth sometimes using 'flat' terms


The Bible ins't "invalid." It's just no more valid as a moral guide than any other collection of myths of any other culture, like the Iliad, the Koran, the Popol Vuh, the Epic of Gilgamesh, etc.
Donald Trump is a fucking liar
November 13th, 2017 at 4:34:20 PM permalink
Wizard
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I don't think anyone present is arguing the opposite side but my argument is with the 1/3 of Christians, per Paco's graphic, who claim the Bible is 100% without error and the "actual word" of god. The flat earth passages, as well as many others showing scientific errors and internal contradictions, clearly show the bible is not inerrant.
Knowledge is Good -- Emil Faber
November 13th, 2017 at 4:47:28 PM permalink
Pacomartin
Member since: Oct 24, 2012
Threads: 851
Posts: 10166
Quote: Wizard
I don't think anyone present is arguing the opposite side but my argument is with the 1/3 of Christians, per Paco's graphic, who claim the Bible is 100% without error and the "actual word" of god. The flat earth passages, as well as many others showing scientific errors and internal contradictions, clearly show the bible is not inerrant.


The term "inerrancy" is more popular among conservative Protestants. Roman Catholics are more likely to believe that the Bible is without error in certain matters such as faith, morals and the criteria for salvation. However, the Bible contains errors when describing other matters, such as scientific observations and historical events.

Quote: Example of a Historical error
According to Exodus 12:3738, the Israelites numbered "about six hundred thousand men on foot, besides women and children", plus many non-Israelites and livestock. Numbers 1:46 gives a more precise total of 603,550 men aged 20 and up. It is difficult to reconcile the idea of 600,000 Israelite fighting men with the information that the Israelites were afraid of the Philistines and Egyptians. The 600,000, plus wives, children, the elderly, and the "mixed multitude" of non-Israelites would have numbered some 2 million people.

The estimated population of the entire world is though to be under 50 million people at the time of the Exodus of which maybe 7% lived in Egypt. A Jewish population of this size would be unbelievable.

There are 70,412,021 registered Catholics in the United States (22% of the US population) as of 2017, according to the American bishops' count in their Official Catholic Directory 2016.
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