Recognizing Jerusalem as the capital of Isreal

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8 members have voted

December 7th, 2017 at 8:58:29 PM permalink
Wizard
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Member since: Oct 23, 2012
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I'm not sure what the big fuss is over this one. If we recognize Israel as a legitimate country, which we do, why not recognize their capital as whatever they say it is within their borders? Correct me if I'm wrong, but this statement isn't claiming Israel is entitled to the Arab section of Jerusalem, although the borders are murky.

Maybe a bad comparison, but if we moved our capital to Sault Saint Marie, Michigan, I don't think other countries would have a problem recognizing it as our new capital, despite there being another Sault Saint Marie right over the border in Canada.

I do have an issue with wasting money to build a new embassy when our one in Tel Aviv is probably fine. I'd suggest Israel pay for the new building, but they would just pay us with our own money, which we generously give.

So, why all the fuss?
Knowledge is Good -- Emil Faber
December 7th, 2017 at 10:05:09 PM permalink
Pacomartin
Member since: Oct 24, 2012
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Quote: Wizard
I'm not sure what the big fuss is over this one.

Are you aware that no country in the world has their embassy in Jerusalem? They are all in Tel Aviv.

It's a very big deal.

Quote: Wizard
I do have an issue with wasting money to build a new embassy when our one in Tel Aviv is probably fine.


The consulate in Jerusalem is one of the two Consulates General (the other being Hong Kong) that function similarly to an embassy (i.e., reporting directly to the United States Department of State and not the ambassador of any country). In October 2010, consular services were moved to a new building in the Arnona neighborhood of West Jerusalem, in an area that was once a no man's land very close to the Green Line.


The embassy complex in Tel Aviv opened in 1966, and is located at 71 HaYarkon Street in Tel Aviv


From the photos the 7 year old consulate seems to be larger than the much older embassy. US has decided against simply switching the names on the doors, upgrading the consulate to an embassy in Jerusalem and declaring the Tel Aviv location a consulate.

This decision seems like an unnecessary expense and is more antagonistic. Personally, I think for the first five or ten years they should just switch signs.
December 8th, 2017 at 8:09:26 AM permalink
Wizard
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Quote: Pacomartin
Personally, I think for the first five or ten years they should just switch signs.


I agree with that.

If we were to recognize "west Jerusalem" as Israel's capital, would Israel be offended at the "west" being thrown in there. Seems like a decent compromise to me but this issue is not my area of expertise.
Knowledge is Good -- Emil Faber
December 8th, 2017 at 9:06:27 AM permalink
AZDuffman
Member since: Oct 24, 2012
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Quote: Wizard
I agree with that.

If we were to recognize "west Jerusalem" as Israel's capital, would Israel be offended at the "west" being thrown in there. Seems like a decent compromise to me but this issue is not my area of expertise.


You are dealing with two cultures that hate each other, one of which wants to destroy the first one. Jerusalem has been fought over for what, 1,000 years? I doubt compromise is possible.

FWIW, Jerusalem was supposed to be some kind of "International Free City" in one of the first plans after WWII. That was shot down.
The man who damns money has obtained it dishonorably; the man who respects it has earned it
December 8th, 2017 at 9:20:56 AM permalink
Pacomartin
Member since: Oct 24, 2012
Threads: 851
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Quote: Wizard
I agree with that.

If we were to recognize "west Jerusalem" as Israel's capital, would Israel be offended at the "west" being thrown in there. Seems like a decent compromise to me but this issue is not my area of expertise.


That would not work. At the end of 2008, the population of East Jerusalem was 456,300, 43% were Jews, and 57% were Arabs.

The 2.5 miles of walls have been there since ancient times and in 1535, when Jerusalem was part of the Ottoman Empire, Sultan Suleiman I ordered the ruined city walls to be rebuilt. The work took some four years, between 1537 and 1541.Right up until late 19th century Muslim landowners decreed that no one could live outside of the walls. This decree was more to keep rents high than for some kind of defense.

The modern city, naturally covers an area of 100X the area of the Old city. The green line established in 1949 is somewhat arbitrary, and Jews have built 5 whole communities in areas East of the Green line in what were once uninhabited sections. The largest has a population of over 50,000

The well publicized 43 minute phone call from Secretary of State Hillary Clinton berating Netanyahu was over a planned housing project for Orthodox Jews in Pisgat Zeíev, which is in East Jerusalem.

The US consulate is right on top of the Green Line, and possibly the land straddles it.


December 8th, 2017 at 9:44:08 AM permalink
Nareed
Member since: Oct 24, 2012
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It's a move that will incense the Palestinians, their apologists and backers, a hell of a lot of Arabs and their governments, and which provides no benefit to Israel or the US.

If you don't mind lose-lose moves with potentially disastrous consequences, then there are no objections.
Donald Trump is a fucking liar
December 8th, 2017 at 10:51:01 AM permalink
Pacomartin
Member since: Oct 24, 2012
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Quote: Nareed
... which provides no benefit to Israel


Israel has been looking for the international acceptance of the claim that Jerusalem is their capital city for 50 years.
December 8th, 2017 at 12:47:14 PM permalink
Nareed
Member since: Oct 24, 2012
Threads: 345
Posts: 12535
Quote: Pacomartin
Israel has been looking for the international acceptance of the claim that Jerusalem is their capital city for 50 years.


They've been complaining as long about the refusal of the Palestinians and the neighboring Arab states to accept the 1948 UN resolution that set up Israel and the associated partition. That resolution also declared Jerusalem a city under international jurisdiction (UN pretty much), it was not given to Israel.

That aside, what does it benefit Israel?

And all that aside, it's the height of idiocy to inflame Arabs and Muslims over this, when otherwise the fight against ISIS is going very well.
Donald Trump is a fucking liar
December 8th, 2017 at 12:55:59 PM permalink
petroglyph
Member since: Aug 3, 2014
Threads: 18
Posts: 3200
Another very good article by Paul Craig Roberts; https://www.paulcraigroberts.org/2017/12/08/avoiding-nuclear-war-first-priority/

"The Amerian people have no input into decisons. Americans are powerless and helpless, like Jews and everyone else in the Nazi camps and like the Palistinians in the Gaza ghetto. They have no voice and are irrelevant to the decisions made in Washington.

Once you understand this, you can understand why Trump would move the US embassy in Israel to Jerusalem. The Israel Lobby is one of the most powerful interest groups in Washington. Trump, under attack from so many quarters can do no better than to have the Israel Lobby and Mossad on his side.

Who else can Trump turn to? The people in flyover America who elected him are powerless. The Isreal Lobby isnít.

Just look at the results of Trumpís announcement that the US embassy will be located in Jerusalem. The neoconservatives who were determined to get rid of Trump because he voiced peace with Russia and the Muslims instead of US hegemony, now praise him."
Everyone gets thrown from the plane to maintain altitude
December 8th, 2017 at 5:19:39 PM permalink
Pacomartin
Member since: Oct 24, 2012
Threads: 851
Posts: 10169
Quote: Nareed
And all that aside, it's the height of idiocy to inflame Arabs and Muslims over this, when otherwise the fight against ISIS is going very well.


But it is not really a surprise as it was a major promise of his campaign. You can say one thing about Trump, he is true to his campaign promises.
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