Should boy scouts allow girls

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December 17th, 2017 at 7:51:23 AM permalink
DRich
Member since: Oct 24, 2012
Threads: 18
Posts: 841
Quote: ams288
Who cares?

Why are a bunch of old men debating this? How does it affect your lives?

I honestly couldn't care less about this... life is much more satisfying if you don't get all bent out of shape over stupid stuff like this.


I agree with you and I am conservative.
December 17th, 2017 at 9:44:18 AM permalink
petroglyph
Member since: Aug 3, 2014
Threads: 18
Posts: 2409
Quote: Evenbob
A 13 year old boy thinks about sex
and girls every waking minute of the
day. Put them with 13 year old girls
and you have a disaster right there
in front of you, waiting to happen.
The ignorance of a parent that would put their teen daughter in that environment is staggering.

Are the teen boys [in the girls parents minds] supposed to be mature enough to deal with the girls menstruating at campouts? These are the same parents who will scream sexual harassment at the drop of a hat.

Another fine organization destroyed by liberal PC.

Human nature cannot be reversed democratically. This policy isn't to help the girls, it is to destroy any place where young men can be taught to be men, and good ones. Yes young men that would walk an old woman across the street are the target to be destroyed by feminazi's. The final coffin nail in Chivalry.

Try taking a dozen pit bulls on a camping trip and throw in a juicy prime rib. What do you think will happen?
Everyone gets thrown from the plane to maintain altitude
December 17th, 2017 at 10:03:51 AM permalink
terapined
Member since: Aug 6, 2014
Threads: 39
Posts: 3483
Quote: petroglyph
The ignorance of a parent that would put their teen daughter in that environment is staggering.

Are the teen boys [in the girls parents minds] supposed to be mature enough to deal with the girls menstruating at campouts? These are the same parents who will scream sexual harassment at the drop of a hat.

Another fine organization destroyed by liberal PC.

Human nature cannot be reversed democratically. This policy isn't to help the girls, it is to destroy any place where young men can be taught to be men, and good ones. Yes young men that would walk an old woman across the street are the target to be destroyed by feminazi's. The final coffin nail in Chivalry.

Try taking a dozen pit bulls on a camping trip and throw in a juicy prime rib. What do you think will happen?


lol
common sense adult supervision
If a girl wants to learn to hunt and shoot
More power to her
In college, I lived in a mixed sex dorm. Sure the guys were on 1 wing and the girls on the other wing but it was all the same floor. No rapes.
Sometimes we live no particular way but our own - Grateful Dead "Eyes of the World"
December 17th, 2017 at 10:28:47 AM permalink
petroglyph
Member since: Aug 3, 2014
Threads: 18
Posts: 2409
Quote: terapined
common sense adult supervision
It gets harder and harder to find scout leaders. It is a lot of work volunteering and hard enough dealing with other peoples kids, without throwing the pubescent sex aspect in there as another obstacle to teaching youth, anything.

Quote:
If a girl wants to learn to hunt and shoot
More power to her
My daughter was absolutely my best fishing partner and a good tracker to boot. Parents should do these things with their daughters and not exclude them from things under their control.

I won't even drive the babysitters home, I won't put myself at that risk. Let alone camp with other peoples teen daughters that I don't know extremely well. So forget me volunteering to chaperone a scout camping trip if there are teen girls involved. It would also put me at risk if something happens [sexually] between the kids.

Quote:
In college, I lived in a mixed sex dorm. Sure the guys were on 1 wing and the girls on the other wing but it was all the same floor. No rapes.
I am assuming you were more mature in college than the average teen breaking out into puberty.

Watching a mixed group of kids on a weekend camping adventure would be like herding cats. It's hard enough when everyone pulls in the same direction.
Everyone gets thrown from the plane to maintain altitude
December 17th, 2017 at 11:00:37 AM permalink
AZDuffman
Member since: Oct 24, 2012
Threads: 105
Posts: 7350
Quote: petroglyph

I am assuming you were more mature in college than the average teen breaking out into puberty.


Save your time there. In his world, if he was somewhere and bad things did not happen, they NEVER happened. Baltimore violence. BLM violence and riots. He knows a few good muslims so none can be bad. He was at an event, nothing happened, then all is well.

BSA has simply signed off on their own decline in the name of PC and the idea that genders are interchangeable. Welcome to a Brave New World.
The man who damns money has obtained it dishonorably; the man who respects it has earned it
December 17th, 2017 at 11:15:43 AM permalink
Evenbob
Member since: Oct 24, 2012
Threads: 111
Posts: 12458
Quote: petroglyph
So forget me volunteering to chaperone a scout camping trip if there are teen girls involved. It would also put me at risk if something happens [sexually] between the kids..


And you know this is going to happen.
Either the adult male will get accused
of sexual crimes, or he'll be blamed
when a 13 year old rapes a 12 year old
girl, or gets one pregnant.
If you take a risk, you may lose. If you never take a risk, you will always lose.
December 17th, 2017 at 2:55:57 PM permalink
Wizard
Administrator
Member since: Oct 23, 2012
Threads: 177
Posts: 3642
I was a Boy Scout so think I am entitled to put my two cents in. This is a soft position, meaning I don't feel very strongly about it and am open minded to other points of view.

That said, I would be okay with girls being allowed in the Cub Scouts and Webelos. I would not oppose all male dens within a troop, for parents who feel strongly against girls inclusion.

However, the Boy Scouts itself (i.e. Tenderfoot to Eagle Scout ranks) should be boys only. Boys at that age are too sexually aggressive and I think there would be all kinds of problems on camping trips. The Scouts themselves would be sued into bankruptcy over such incidents. About as far as I could bend would be to allow all girl dens within a troop, being careful to segregate them on troop camping trips.

A bit off topic, but when I was in the scouts there was some kind of sex scandal involving one of the other den fathers. He wasn't my den father but I knew him and was at his house several times. His kids were rather strange. However, the father seemed fine to me. Usually out of sight. His kids did pretty much whatever they wanted. When it came out about some funny business on a camping trip he was immediately fired under very hush hush circumstances.

I guess this goes to the point that the scouts being all male still doesn't guarantee nothing inappropriate ever happens.
Knowledge is Good -- Emil Faber
December 17th, 2017 at 4:22:07 PM permalink
odiousgambit
Member since: Oct 28, 2012
Threads: 82
Posts: 1894
of this sort of thing, I think allowing girls on the wrestling teams is the most insane. Some parents have told me the boys hate it, they lose to the girls 'because so many holds are prohibited'. Seems to me that if girls are to be allowed on the teams ... well, how can they make special rules? On the other hand, how could they not, of course, have special rules?

It's insane, all this stuff, to me. Of course somebody my age can only remember that no girls he knew ever expected to be on the boy's wrestling team, or any wrestling team. Brave new world now.
Mustard:You like Kipling, Miss Scarlet? Sure, I'll eat anything [from movie]
December 17th, 2017 at 6:57:37 PM permalink
rxwine
Member since: Oct 24, 2012
Threads: 123
Posts: 5671
People have always said people will be damaged if they act differently --- kids as well.

No one has ever proven I am not God.
December 18th, 2017 at 3:02:01 AM permalink
beachbumbabs
Member since: Sep 3, 2013
Threads: 5
Posts: 1027
Well, I'll weigh in, too.

Background: Girl Scout 13 years. Girl Scout counselor in training 2 years.
Camps
Girl Guide counselor 1974
Girl Scout counselor 1976
Boy Scout Waterfront Director 1979
Explorer troop leader 1981
Jewish Community Center Waterfront Director 1982
YMCA Waterfront Director 1985

So maybe a unique perspective.

GSA, GG, BSA camps were single gender
YMCA and JCC were both.
Ages 8-16 or so for all.

Random observations

Boy Scouts had the highest standards and the hardest badges. I certified to teach rowing, sailing,
Canoeing, motorboating, knot-tying, swimming, and life-saving badges. They have a national camp outside Austin, TX, where they teach you to teach these. My Red Cross certifications as small craft instructor and water safety instructor were not sufficient for them, though they were enough for all the other orgs.

For example, in canoeing, one requirement was the girls had to swamp their canoe in waist-high or deeper water, demonstrate they could find an air pocket underneath and balance around the outside edges, turn the swamped canoe over and get in while it was still flooded, then paddle the canoe to shallow water, where they could empty it out. Usually 2 or 3 girls per canoe. Not hard; mostly learning not to panic when the canoe dumps.

Boy scouts had to swamp the canoe in water over their head, shelter under and balance over it, then shake all the water out, get back in the canoe without swamping it again, and return to operation. By themselves. In water over their head. Very tricky stuff. I couldn't do it now. Bruised myself something terrible learning it back then.

I was doubtful about being a BSA counselor. They were not; they recruited me in college, sent me to their school. 200 men, me, one other woman. A general ran the training camp. A colonel ran our camp. I was one of 3 woman counselors there.

I really doubt they would have recruited me if they had a qualified male available. And that's the real problem. The adults either don't have the time or the interest anymore to sustain the organization. Perhaps the kids lost interest first, I don't know. But I think it was the leadership that failed.

So, in my opinion, there's nothing a boy can do in Scouting a girl can't do. The question is, should they do it together?

We managed fine without a lot of hormonal crises in the co-ed camps. But, I think there's HUGE value in boy scouts and girl scouts remaining single-sex. And I would advocate keeping them separate wherever possible.

Both need to see and learn from strong leaders of their own sex without distraction. They need to socialize as groups of like individuals, learn skills that aren't being taught any more, be active outdoors without phones or computers for a period of time.

The only time I would allow a mixed den past age 8 or so is a diminished interest in scouting someplace, where a mixed-sex group is needed to have enough kids and parents involved for a good experience. Mixed scouting is better than none.

However, the world has changed so much in the 30 years since I was heavily involved, I'm guessing my attitude about it is archaic.
Holding on to anger is like drinking poison and expecting the other person to die. -ersatz Buddha
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