Untested: I'd give my life for those kids.

Quote: Fleastiff
And whose lives are you saving?
The lives of overpaid, arrogant teachers who cause these things to happen?
The lives of kids already living on welfare handouts for hot meals?

Quote: SOOPOO

Trying to win lowest of the low post?

As an elderly curmudgeon and mass murderer I have a unique view of such things.

If the shooter has been bullied, you are saving the lives of the bullies.
Usually the teachers/administrators and boring curriculum are the problem. Do you want to save the life of a school teacher?
You can fill in the blanks as to your racial/ethnic/tax-burden biases but do you really want to risk your life to save some diseased foreigner who came here to freeload off the taxpayers?

Quote: rxwine

Might not even have to be a real gun.

Takes real courage to go up against an assault rifle with a dummy pistol. However, it is likely true that even a pistol shot might cause hesitation and induce the shooter to not venture into the hallway or roam too far.

Training: Even if the policy did change, did he ever receive re-training in it.

Wow
looking bad for Broward deputies
When Coral spring police arrived to go into the school
They were stunned that Broward county deputys refused to follow them in and instead decided to stay outside
sad

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/sources-coral-springs-police-upset-at-some-broward-deputies-for-not-entering-school/ar-BBJvA3b?li=BBmkt5R&ocid=spartandhp

The question is extremely hypothetical. Fact is, until you find your life threatened, or face a dangerous situation, you've no idea how you're going to react. training, like that soldiers get, might help, but it's far from being a guarantee.

Many years ago I was robbed at gun-point in broad daylight right outside a bank. If you're interested to know, I remained quite calm and found myself thinking faster than usual. I managed to preserve my life, my property, and even some of the money I'd just withdrawn (the money was not mine, it was the company's). But there was another thing. A co-worker was with me. I forgot all about him until after the robbers fled.

I also remain calm during earthquakes and afterwards. Though it's worth noting none ever caught me at an unsafe place, and I wasn't in Mex City for the big one in 1985. I've never been in a fire, hurricane, tornado, or flood. No one's ever shot me, nor have I ever seen shots fired outside a shooting range.

I've had close calls while driving. Those I find scary, but only after they happen. While they're going on, I don't even have time to think. i kind of just tend to react by stomping on the brakes and perhaps trying to turn. The one time I had a crash, I saw nothing until after my car had stopped.

Quote: Fleastiff

Quote: Fleastiff
And whose lives are you saving?
The lives of overpaid, arrogant teachers who cause these things to happen?
The lives of kids already living on welfare handouts for hot meals?
As an elderly curmudgeon and mass murderer I have a unique view of such things.

If the shooter has been bullied, you are saving the lives of the bullies.
Usually the teachers/administrators and boring curriculum are the problem. Do you want to save the life of a school teacher?
You can fill in the blanks as to your racial/ethnic/tax-burden biases but do you really want to risk your life to save some diseased foreigner who came here to freeload off the taxpayers?

Fwiw. Perhaps I've missed something you posted in the past or other things you've said, but I've never considered your part in 9-11 going forward, to be a case of responsibility. I dealt with some similar guilt in having helped to train several of the hijackers to fly, providing them with ATC services locally, assistance with aviation English, and in at least one case, providing a tour of our tower and radar room.

You have to do the best you can, know that you did what you could, and simply let it go. It was a unique event, all of us were caught by surprise, and we've all learned what we can from it.

In hindsight, so many things could have happened differently, any one of them stopping the chain of events. And, as bad as it was, it was set to be worse. They've not released much info about what DIDN'T happen that day, so I won't offer what little I know, but there were other planes. Other plans. Other weapons in place. And our defensive reaction was so swift and strong, those were not lost.

We all did what we could, including you. What happened was not deliberate on your part. You need to forgive yourself.

Quote: Nareed

I've never been in a fire,

Responding to being in a fire is easy as I've done that. Your ass is about to catch fire and you go whichever way that doesn't involve more of that. Heat is very motivating eventually.

I don't know about going into one without gear. It's kind of a guessing game if you can't see what or who you're after in the first few moments.

Quote: beachbumbabs

Fwiw. Perhaps I've missed something you posted in the past or other things you've said, but I've never considered your part in 9-11 going forward, to be a case of responsibility.
.. . .
We all did what we could, including you. What happened was not deliberate on your part. You need to forgive yourself.

This is from my blog on which I've from time to time posted about how I deal with September 10th each year and frequently with thoughts of it from time to time.

Only in Horseshoes and Grenades

There are reports of Israeli agents on the roof of a moving firm in West New York cavorting with glee and equipped with binoculars. There were three Israeli agents arrested in the area of the WTC and later released on Presidential instructions.

More significant of Israeli complicity in the attacks is the Israeli activity that took place in Seattle on the eve of the September 11th attacks.

What is pathetic is that Seattle graduate student who had a woman walk into the graduate student lounge, make a reference to a humorous email he had sent a few months earlier and then provide him with a sandwich that clearly turned out to have been drugged. He had previously blabbered unwisely and it was a precautionary drugging by the Mossad because they had no way of knowing he had actually resolved to contact United Airlines and inquire about a Mohammed Atta possibly being on an LAX de LGN flight a few hours earlier.

The woman was definitely not wearing a towel or riding a camel, she looked like a Jewish psychologist and almost certainly was one. There is no way this incident could have been radical Islam related, it was related to Israel, thus clearly establishing Israeli complicity in the planning and execution of the attacks. He was briefly concerned that the email was several months before and was on a list for the Information School and the woman was one he had not yet encountered in the information school and therefore not enrolled there. He also had a brief concern about the number of books she was lugging if she was there on such a brief errand and that she placed one, rather narrow, bag directly in front of him even adjusting its location minutely. Much to his later regret, he did not act on these transient doubts that he had.

He had done some previous musing on the timing of attacks and felt that it would certainly be an early morning impact into the world trade center since these things are always timed for the television cameras. He knew the NTSB used to let people paint over the corporate logos at air crashes and felt the airline would be irrelevant. His failure to realize that it would obviously be an US flagged carrier is inexplicable. He simply correctly guessed on United Airlines and had searched the web for Mohammed Atta in the previous two or three days. He had meant to keep current with the truck bombing case developments but never did. Laziness and lack of diligence.

After the sandwich, he became disoriented and highly agitated. When he went to his home computer to formally contact a professor about United Airlines and a possible Mohammad Atta on a LAX de LGN flight his hands literally flew off the keyboard. He had previously cultivated a former Regan White House official but found he could not bring himself to email her either, nor a different professor with contacts in what laughably passes as 'the intelligence community'. He tried to contact one of those Dollar A Year deputy sheriffs in Los Angeles who was former CIA but could not force himself to do it for fear he would be arrested for even making the allegation. This was of course an utter absurdity since he was a member of the bar and was well acquainted with the laws relating to communicating a threat of a terroristic nature. This is one of the reasons he felt afterwards that in addition to being drugged he had been hypnotized.

He lived only five blocks from a state patrol station but found himself strangely unable to dial them. Thought of dialing an FAA weather advisory number for pilots about to take off and warning about multiple hijackings in a manner that could not be immediately traced, but couldn't bring himself to do it. Deranged by an unknown drug and obviously the subject of some post hypnotic suggestion and acutely aware he had not the slightest evidence, he was unable to give the warning. Searched the internet for the successor to the Continental Army Command. Logged into WINS radio in NYC but could not compose a message on their blog page. All of this was NOT the work of Islamic Terrorists, it was the work of the Mossad.

He had absolutely no evidence or indications that a Mossad agent was waiting in the alley to kill him if he tried to leave his apartment, but he had this abiding fear of it. He also had an abiding fear that he would be imprisoned if he even suggested anything about United Airlines although sometimes that fear was about being summarily shot. It is true that he suffered from a variety of sleep disorders and that at the time he was totally unaware that his automobile was spewing outrageously high amounts of carbon monoxide, but he feels that this did not play a major role and probably played no role at all.

His view at the time was that POTUS was a primary conspirator and had knowledge of the exact flights. His evidence was zilch.
His view at the time was that the Saudi Arabia ambassador was a primary conspirator. His evidence was zilch.
His view at the time was that Israel was the primary conspirator. His evidence was zilch, until his drugging.

Look at what happened:
All the PapaDocs were killed, all the BabyDocs fought amongst each other. American lives were squandered, American weapons were used and the American economy was impacted, while Israel didn't have to disrupt their economy by calling up their reserves. Billions were spent enhancing the bottom line of various corporations the Bush family held shares in and all those unaccounted for millions that went to various private security firms certainly sweetened the deal for the Bush family and the House of Saud since it is believed that despite various titular owners, most such private armies are owned by either the Bush family or the House of Saud.

This is a far more sensible outlook on world events that some radical members of a stateless network engineered this when they live in a society where a marriage is arranged between cousins because no one in an entire village can truly be trusted. If they don't trust even their own villagers why would they suddenly trust someone from a foreign land even if he has similar political views. A stateless network of radical extremists at that time was probably more an Israeli front organization or, if a real organization, would have certainly been permeated by the Shin Bet. Just as the only Communist Party members who routinely paid their dues on time were usually FBI informers, the core workers in any stateless Islamic network were probably Shin Bet spies.

Foreknowledge of the attack would have been worth millions of dollars but no one has ever done a study of the futures markets and who profited in T-bill futures and commodity options. Such a study would have to focus on the major players who would be the ones most likely to have been tipped off by Israel. Whether it would involve Bush family financial decisions might be harder to trace.

Presidential treason? No way to prove it though I've always felt it far too much of a coincidence that the plane tasked for the white house suffered a frayed throttle cable as this is a very time consuming repair job and would guarantee that particular plane would never take off. The more interesting treason would have been that of the professor who reported the Seattle jerk's foolish babblings to the Mossad and that of the psychology student the Mossad employed. They were certainly USA citizens who felt their primary loyalty was to Israel, not the United States.

How many think its the news coverage about these incidents that makes them attractive to subsequent shooters? If the media steered clear of all these quotations and all day long diatribes such things might just not become so admirable to the perpetrators.

Quote: Fleastiff

How many think its the news coverage about these incidents that makes them attractive to subsequent shooters? If the media steered clear of all these quotations and all day long diatribes such things might just not become so admirable to the perpetrators.

For certain, media does influence peoples thinking, or how else could you explain commercials?

I haven't watched 5 minutes of this latest [Cruz] massacre or 10 minutes total of the Vegas shooting. What does irk me is the media clamoring for audience by appealing to the sorrow of the suffering, or asking for advice from teenagers about how the nation should move forward. The sorrow doesn't change from ones great loss to the next. Hard to believe the topics picked at the news broadcasters that are most relevant in a 30 minute block. It seems to be infotainment, not news.

On a different thought pattern. This Cruz killer was upset about losing his girl, I believe? I wonder if he had had access to a whorehouse, if maybe he wouldn't have been more interested in having sex than killing people?

Just more reason to legalize prostitution from coast to coast. It seems almost every mass killer is male, and it seems quite possible that they are sexually frustrated? A firearm being the ultimate phallic symbol.

Checking whether prostitution has any effect on shootings/violence might be interesting, except often prostitution is only allowed to exist in unsavory areas usually accompanied with other criminalized behavior. Such areas are already filled with ne'er-do-wells and I don't think tourist driven prostitution tells you much about an area since a lot of out-of towners involved.

Troublesome relationships, or ones falling apart certainly drive some people mental and violence ensues. Domestic murders aren't so uncommon.