Happy Easter!

Quote: Evenbob

Evidence and proof for your beliefs
never mean much to you, or so I've
noticed.

I knew you couldn't last long without resorting to childish insults. I'm just surprised what you say is so incorrect. Evidence means the world to me and my beliefs. Can't you see that? Do you not realize the frustration you cause when you say this when I have said over and over how important it is? I know you don't accept my evidence for God but to say it doesn't mean much to me is hurtful.

Quote:

Juries are about one
side or the other winning.

You don't think juries about determining innocence or guilt?

Quote:

Religions are
about making a small priest class powerful
and usually wealthy.

Do you think religion has anything to do with helping others, giving hope, teaching about love, forgiving, and teaching morality?

Quote:

Your own Church is
worth so much it's incalculable in dollars.

Are you talking about the priceless works of art that faith has inspired over the millennia? Do you think Pope Francis who lives in a hotel room at the Vatican is living in the lap of luxury? Are you trying to say priests make lots of money? What is your point here? Do you mean the charity and service that the Church distributes is incalculable in dollars?

Quote:

They absolutely want it, that's a documented
fact. Many homeless choose the lifestyle,
go figure.

Why do you think someone would choose to be homeless? Do you think someone would ever choose to be exposed to the elements, in constant danger, threatened with violence, used and abused?

Quote: Evenbob

If God answers prayer, why didn’t he answer the prayers of the faithful Jews during the Holocaust? Or of the faithful Christians who also suffered torment and death at the hands of the Nazis? If God is concerned to answer my little prayers about my daily life, why didn’t he answer my and others’ big prayers when millions were being slaughtered.. We live in a world in which a child dies every five seconds of starvation. Every five seconds. Every minute there are twenty-five people who die because they do not have clean water to drink. Every hour 700 people die of malaria. Where is God in all this?

God is where he always is, nowhere
to be found. We live in a physical
world, not a spiritual one.

It is God who is asking you where are you in all of this?

How can we not dedicate our lives to helping others when children are dying of starvation or because of the lack of clean water? What did you do today to help someone out? You treated a homeless man like a toll booth and refused to look into his eyes and acknowledge his dignity or even ask his name! Where are you today when more people are enslaved than at any other time in history? Most of those slaves are involved in a sex trade that deals in pornography, that you have no problem with? God and His people are speaking out about all these atrocities. I was recently with full time missionaries who strive every day to help people get healthy food and clean water. Every day they help women get out of the prostitution business. They do it because of the message of the Gospel of Jesus Christ.

God is everywhere. The question is where the hell are you?!? Nowhere to be found. Doing nothing and blaming God for it. Thank God we live in a world that is spiritual and where the people you ignore and whom you say God has abandoned receive everlasting life and perfect happiness and those who refuse to help someone to eat or drink or be free reap the consequences they deserve.

Quote: FrGamble

I knew you couldn't last long without resorting to childish insults.

Childish, really? You tell me we aren't doing this
anymore, the Wiz even warns you about
it, and you're doing it again?

To the Wiz: No, I'm not insulted so
please no punishment. He's young
and apparently can't help himself.

Quote:

I know you don't accept my evidence for God

You do realize that just because you
call something evidence, that doesn't
automatically make it real evidence.

Quote:

You don't think juries about determining innocence or guilt?

No, it's about rewarding who ever presented
the best case, Look at the OJ trial.

Quote:

Do you think religion has anything to do with helping others, giving hope, teaching about love, forgiving, and teaching morality?

AA does this, does that make
it a religion? AA also provides
fellowship and a sense of
community.

Quote:

Are you talking about the priceless works of art

Mostly I'm talking about all the property
the Church stole/confiscated/illegally
obtained in the last 1500 years. Some
of it was once farmland that now sits in
the middle of large cities and has a
value that can't even be calculated
because skyscrapers are now sitting
on it paying rent to the Vatican thru
layers of shell companies.

Quote:

Why do you think someone would choose to be homeless?

To avoid the everyday responsibilities of
work and bills and family. Shall I post
some more case histories so you can
ignore those as well?

Quote: Evenbob

Childish, really?

I think the Wiz was worried because I called you childish. Here I am saying your insults to me are childish, anyone can see they are. They are also hurtful.

Quote:

You do realize that just because you
call something evidence, that doesn't
automatically make it real evidence.

Yes, you do realize that just because you don't recognize something as evidence, that doesn't automatically not make it real evidence?

Quote:

No, it's about rewarding who ever presented
the best case, Look at the OJ trial.

So you think one trial defines thousands happening every day? Do you think that juries are actually to try to make sure it is NOT just the one who presents a more entertaining case wins?

Quote:

AA does this, does that make
it a religion? AA also provides
fellowship and a sense of
community.

Kind of, it is based on a higher power and founded by a very religious person. Thanks for reminding me that religion also provides fellowship and a community.

Quote:

because skyscrapers are now sitting
on it paying rent to the Vatican thru
layers of shell companies.

Are you a conspiracy type of person who believes anything they read?

Quote:

To avoid the everyday responsibilities of
work and bills and family. Shall I post
some more case histories so you can
ignore those as well?

No one is doubting there are case stories. The thing you don't seem to get is that they are case stories because they are not the norm but strange.

Quote: FrGamble

Here I am saying your insults to me are childish,

You said no more of this, and here you
are doing it again. If you had no intention
of changing your insulting ways, why
did you suggest it.

Quote:

Yes, you do realize that just because you don't recognize something as evidence,

If it was real irrefutable evidence, we would
not be having this discussion. We would all
be god believers. The truth is, you and
many god people are so terribly desperate
for any kind of evidence, you cling to the
tiniest filament of a fragment of faux 'evidence'
to keep from drowning in the sea of doubt.

Quote:

So you think one trial defines thousands happening every day?

So you don't think a good lawyer is
important, you believe the jury will
see the 'truth' no matter who presents
it? I hope you never have to put your
fallacy to the test. The truth has little
to do with anything, it's how the story
is told that's important. Your Church
has gotten very bad at telling the story,
that's why they're faltering.

Quote:

Kind of, it is based on a higher power

Not really, the higher power can be
the cat you worship at home, or the
tree you love in the backyard.

"In AA a higher power can be anything at all that the member believes is adequate. Reported examples include their twelve-step group, nature, consciousness, existential freedom, science, Buddha, and even God"

If it can mean anything, it's meaningless.

Quote:

Are you a conspiracy type of person who believes anything they read?

What a childish and hurtful thing to
say. (Isn't that what we're saying now
when we don't like something?)

Quote:

No one is doubting there are case stories..

Every homeless person has a story. Some are
there because of circumstances, some are there
by choice. More are there by choice then you
will (obviously) ever believe.

Rewind the tape and you said I didn't care about evidence, hurtful and wrong by itself. However, you said it in a sarcastic way that I think is childish.

I also need to clarify hurtful. It is hurtful in the sense of my reason to even talk to you. I keep thinking that there is someone on the other side of the screen who is really engaging and really trying to understand me. When you say things like I don't care about evidence or that the Church has shell companies that get secret rent through skyscrapers; I begin to doubt my faith in you. When you think juries are audiences rather than seeking truth and when you think a vast amount of homeless people want to be homeless; again it shakes my faith in you. As you know I have a strong faith, but faith needs evidence. Please give me some evidence about something, anything, you've learned, been corrected on, or seen in a different light. I'm begging you please restore my faith in you.

Quote: FrGamble

Please give me some evidence about something, anything, you've learned, been corrected on, or seen in a different light.

We've been having discussions for 4 1/2 years,
and you want me to review what I might
have learned, or now see in a different light?
From thousands of posts from both of us
on all kinds of subjects. So your faith can
be restored in me?

In regards to what? I have no idea what
you're asking. We're having a discussion,
that's been active for years, what 'faith'
are you talking about?

Simply convince me that you understand where I am coming from that you grasp what I am saying. Could you do this: simply put my argument into your own words.

Quote: FrGamble

What did you do today to help someone out? You treated a homeless man like a toll booth and refused to look into his eyes and acknowledge his dignity or even ask his name!.. I was recently with full time missionaries who strive every day to help people get healthy food and clean water. Every day they help women get out of the prostitution business... God is everywhere. The question is where the hell are you?!? Nowhere to be found. Doing nothing and blaming God for it.

Wow. My mouth is hanging open after
reading this diatribe, the ego and hubris
of it is boggling.

After all this time the truth comes out.
You're judgemental and critical and
obviously think you're oh-so much better
a person than I am. I kind of knew
this about you, most 'god' people are
this way to some extent. But to see it on
full exhibit like this, that you consider
yourself to be so above me that you
can sit on your high horse as the god
appointed moral arbiter, it's
breathtaking to behold.

Self-Righteous definition:

"A self-righteous person acts superior because he believes his moral standards are superior. This "moral smugness" is condescending by nature and is usually found offensive by others."

Do they teach moral smugness in seminary,
or is it just naturally acquired. It's wonderful
that you spent time helping missionaries,
did you get injured patting yourself on the
back about it? You seem to have it in your
holster, ready to draw it out and show what
a terrific person you are.

You have no idea the charities I'm involved
with because you never ask. You would never
ask because it galls you that an atheist would
ever be charitable, only 'god' people can do
that. And I don't 'blame god' for anything,
nor do I give him credit. He doesn't exist.

It's a shame that things had to end this way.
I must admit you put up a good front for
a long time, always saying you aren't judgemental
in any way, quite the opposite you said.
Nobody can keep up a facade forever, yours
had to come tumbling down eventually.

I certainly can't waste anymore time in serious
conversation with someone who, for no valid
reason, thinks he's so far superior to me.
Imagine a world full of such self righteous men,
and you have the Church for the last 1000
years. It gives me unimaginable glee to see it
now crumbling around them because they
couldn't control their own vulgar base appetites
while sitting on their high thrones trying to
control the actions and thoughts of others.

And yeah, I would give the homeless guy
a buck because he asked for it, and let
him go his way. I don't have the problem
of being a self appointed 'fixer' of other
peoples problems, especially when they
never even asked. I respect the privacy
and dignity of others and don't feel it's
my right to intrude on them because I
consider myself morally superior. You
don't even realize what your 'god' has
turned you into.

I guess if you judge God to be a monster I am in good company when you judge me so harshly.

It is probably best that we stop interacting if this is how you respond when your conscience is pricked by a response to your aggressive and judgemental posts.

I am not a judgemental person but I will say that I think you do need some kind of help to find more happiness in life. Just know that I do love you, care for you, and truly wish you the best. Know of my prayers for you.