Paris to Bordeaux in 2:04

Quote: Wizard

Thanks. The ride was super smooth.

Yep they are as smooth as silk. I have a photo of the in-carriage screeen I took when we were between Salerno & Rome and it says 297km/h (185m/h). As I said, you wouldn’t know it was that fast without the screen telling you.

Quote: Aussie

What’s your point?

That claims of 'perfectly safe' should
always be followed with 'till it's not'.

Quote: Evenbob

That claims of 'perfectly safe' should
always be followed with 'till it's not'.

The Eschede disaster was caused by a single wheel. a total of 56% of the seats were empty. The fatality rate was 34% with another 30% severely injured. The train was travelling at only 125 miles per hour (about the top speed of the Amtrak trains in the Northeast USA).

Passengers: 287 (ICE-1 max. is 651)
Train crew: 6
Maintenance crew: 2

Fatalities: 101
Severe injuries: 88
Minor or no injury: 106



The tyre embedded in the rail car was seen by Jörg Dittmann, one of the passengers in Coach 1. The tyre went through an armrest in his compartment, between where his wife and son sat. Dittmann took his wife and son out of the damaged coach and went to inform a conductor in the third coach. The conductor, who noticed vibrations in the train, told Dittmann that company policy required him to investigate the circumstances before pulling the emergency brake. The conductor took one minute to go to the site in Coach 1. According to Dittmann, the train had begun to sway from side to side by then. The conductor did not show a willingness to stop the train immediately at that point and wished to investigate the incident more thoroughly. Dittmann could not find an emergency brake in the corridor and had not noticed that there was an emergency brake handle in his own compartment. The crash occurred just when Dittmann was about to show the armrest puncture to the conductor.

If the passenger had pulled the emergency brake himself it is possible that no one would have died. Neither he nor the conductor were held legally responsible for failing to act.

Seconds from Disaster is a one hour documentary. I have seen this documentary several times, and it is a horrific series of events, each one compounding the situation as it goes from worse to worse.

Quote: Pacomartin

The Eschede disaster was caused by a single wheel. a

At 175 mph it won't take much to
turn a train into a plane.

Quote: Evenbob

At 175 mph it won't take much to turn a train into a plane.

The German train was going 125 mph. I don't know if you watched the video, but
(1) when the wheel on the third axle of the first car broke, the outside tyre peeled away from the wheel, and punctured the floor of the car, where it remained embedded. It poked through the seats between the man's wife and son. In a cruel twist of fate, had either of them been hurt, he wouldn't have hesitated to pull the emergency brake and all those people would have lived.

(2) because the wife and son were only frightened, the father ordered them out of the car and went to look for the conductor. He went back two cars and found the conductor, but the conductor wouldn't stop the train until he saw the damage personally

(3) the broken piece of tyre caught itself on a railroad switch and pulled up another piece of rail which also pierced the bottom of the train..

(4) the new piece of metal was big enough to catch on the switch and trigger it and also derail the train car.

(5) because the switch was thrown the third car started going down another track. That twisted the train enough so that it took out the concrete pillar of an overhead automobile bridge.

(6) the automobile bridge crashed down on the 5th car smashing the back end under tons of concrete. All the rest of the cars were still being pushed from behind and crushed together like an accordian.

(7) most of the people in the front cars walked off the train with minor injuries, while the majority of people in the rear cars were crushed like bugs.

The engineering decision to push a train rather than pull it (the German train did both) is an issue even in relatively low speed train accidents like the one in Glendale California in 2005. The immediate cause of the accident was a suicidal man had last minute thoughts and abandoned an SUV on the train track. The commuter rail was being pushed from behind and 11 people died as the flimsier passenger cars pancaked. The trains have a top speed of 79 mph on most of the system, but at any given time could be going slower.

Quote: Pacomartin

The German train was going 125 mph. I don't know if you watched the video, ]

I would never get on this train, I don't
care how safe it is. That much weight
going 175 on the ground is insane.
Way too vulnerable as a target for
saboteurs.

Quote: Evenbob

That much weight going 175 on the ground is insane. Way too vulnerable as a target for saboteurs.

I think trains are around 1.00 tonnes/seat which is consistent with the weight of larger dual aisle jets. A Boeing 777-300ER has a maximum take off weight of 352 tonnes which is probably about 1 tonne/seat depending on most configurations. United configures them with 366 seats. Now the maximum landing weight of the same plane is only 252 tonnes.

A jet is flying at almost 3X the speed of the train.

I guess you think that being on the ground makes it much easier to sabotage, than being in the air. You may be correct as there is a lot of track to guard.

Quote: Pacomartin

IA jet is flying at almost 3X the speed of the train.

Can't compare them. They sky has very
little to bring a plane down. Most plane
accidents involve the ground, taking
off or landing.

Quote: Pacomartin

I think trains are around 1.00 tonnes/seat which is consistent with the weight of larger dual aisle jets. A Boeing 777-300ER has a maximum take off weight of 352 tonnes which is probably about 1 tonne/seat depending on most configurations. United configures them with 366 seats. Now the maximum landing weight of the same plane is only 252 tonnes.

A jet is flying at almost 3X the speed of the train.

Quote: Evenbob

Can't compare them. They sky has very little to bring a plane down. Most plane accidents involve the ground, taking off or landing.

Upon further thought, the landing speed of a large jet is often around 160 mph, and you are only landing for a few minutes. A high speed train is often at speeds above 175 mph for hours on end. So perhaps what you say makes some sense.

It's also a lot easier to survey a runway against debris or sabotage than it is hundreds of miles of track with crossings.

Quote: Evenbob

I would never get on this train, I don't
care how safe it is. That much weight
going 175 on the ground is insane.
Way too vulnerable as a target for
saboteurs.

Gotta agree with EB here. Too many miles of tracks to guard against a jihadist. I have thought it would be one of their targets for years.