Democratic Nominee in 2020

Quote: AZDuffman

I maintain that a society with a high abortion rate is a society in irreversible decline.

It's a society with no moral center.
Abortion is killing an unborn person,
it's sick. I'm an atheist and even I
see that.

Quote: AZDuffman

And that’s my point. I’ve only seen on film in 8th grade. But it’s not a pretty thing.

I maintain that a society with a high abortion rate is a society in irreversible decline.

I've seen a birth firsthand, and that wasn't a pretty thing, either. I almost lost consciousness, in fact.

Quote: Mission146

I've seen a birth firsthand, and that wasn't a pretty thing, either. I almost lost consciousness, in fact.

Then you'd love seeing an
abortion on film. Bring the
big bucket of popcorn.

Quote: SOOPOO

Jobs are NOT made to support people. Jobs are made BECAUSE there is a job to be done! And the employer should determine how much to offer for that job. If he offers too little he won't get employees. You been to McDonalds recently? Computers have taken over a job or two or more. At $12 an hour it makes sense for McDonalds. Might not have at $10 an hour. So two fewer KIDS have jobs. The result you want?

Actually minimum wage law suggests jobs ARE made to support people, not just pay them what the employer thinks they're worrth. This is why we don't have third world wages, LIKE we once actually did have.

Congress acted before to protect workers from being paid what they're "worth." I am just saying to raise it.

Quote: rxwine

Actually minimum wage law suggests jobs ARE made to support people, not just pay them what the employer thinks they're worrth. This is why we don't have third world wages, LIKE we once actually did have.

Congress acted before to protect workers from being paid what they're "worth." I am just saying to raise it.

Wouldn't have this problem if they had indexed MW to inflation in the first place, then MW would be worth at least roughly what it was intended to be worth at the time it was created. That said, I don't think an immediate national jump to $15/hour is a terribly good idea.

Quote: Mission146

hat said, I don't think an immediate national jump to $15/hour is a terribly good idea.

Good way to shrink the economy
and bring back unemployment.

Quote: Mission146

Wouldn't have this problem if they had indexed MW to inflation in the first place, then MW would be worth at least roughly what it was intended to be worth at the time it was created. That said, I don't think an immediate national jump to $15/hour is a terribly good idea.

I'm sure there is some general principle about fixing things rapidly that were neglected for too long. I agree, rapid fix, is not a good idea.

Quote: Mission146

Wouldn't have this problem if they had indexed MW to inflation in the first place, then MW would be worth at least roughly what it was intended to be worth at the time it was created. That said, I don't think an immediate national jump to $15/hour is a terribly good idea.

When the minimum wage was first instituted, a single minimum-wage earner could support a family of 3 above the poverty line.

The minimum wage was originally established to provide a living wage.

Quote:

a single person must earn $12,490 a year, or $6.00 an hour, to be above the poverty level. A single person making $14,976 a year ($11.50 an hour), they would barely be making enough to live on in many states.

https://www.thebalance.com/living-wage-3305771

Obviously a living wage depends a lot on where you live.

The poverty line for a family of 4 is $25,750. That would be a wage of $12.38 an hour.

A living wage is supposed to provide more than just the poverty line.

The other important thing about those numbers is it is based on 40 hours a week full time employment.

Jumping straight to $15/hr would be bad. You would want to ramp it up over a number of years, AND index it to inflation.
So set a target of $15/hr, every year move that target by the amount of inflation, and increase the minimum wage by some value larger than inflation until it meets the target.

Quote: Dalex64

When the minimum wage was first instituted, a single minimum-wage earner could support a family of 3 above the poverty line.

The minimum wage was originally established to provide a living wage.

I basically agree with that, which is why I suggested that it should have been indexed to inflation at some point. At the very least, you wouldn't have the question of what minimum wage should be come up every so many years or decades. Granted, you might get the question of whether or not it should be increased beyond wherever inflation puts it, but at least there would be some sort of meaningful and reasonable automatic increase.

Quote:

Jumping straight to $15/hr would be bad. You would want to ramp it up over a number of years, AND index it to inflation.
So set a target of $15/hr, every year move that target by the amount of inflation, and increase the minimum wage by some value larger than inflation until it meets the target.

Sounds reasonable enough and unlikely to immediately have a drastic impact on people who are already making more than the current minimum wage, but l;ess than or close to that $15/hour or equivalent. That said, I don't think it's legislated poverty exactly...but I can definitely see the argument that it's something close to that. More of us will just be close to the bottom, I guess, but at least the bottom will be higher.

Quote: Mission146

Wouldn't have this problem if they had indexed MW to inflation in the first place, then MW would be worth at least roughly what it was intended to be worth at the time it was created. That said, I don't think an immediate national jump to $15/hour is a terribly good idea.

The GOP once offered this but Hillary and other Democrats wanted the issue every few years. That’s the Democrat Party looking out for their voters for ya!