Time to get rid of Algebra II?

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March 4th, 2019 at 2:39:02 AM permalink
AZDuffman
Member since: Oct 24, 2012
Threads: 135
Posts: 18136
Quote: Evenbob
How were you using it. It was so
rare an event she wrote it down.


I had to figure out how to price a job to make 20 percent profit margin. The hard part, the part my assistant manager missed, was that as the bid price went up the salesman commission went up and thus the profit margin went down. Simple stuff, though my assistant manager was amazed as his math skills were bad enough that he was never going to be promoted, though he didn't know that.

The woman just wanted an example to give to the kids that was simple and understandable. Had I had teachers able to give this kind of example it all might have made more sense. The teachers, though, were always the type that got thru it because they could just sit and listen and obey. Then they cycle repeats. Those who need a "why" end up working in industry, not education, as we cannot sit, listen, obey, repeat.

Why has someone never written an Algebra text book that does this? Wiz?
The President is a fink.
March 4th, 2019 at 4:39:15 AM permalink
Pacomartin
Member since: Oct 24, 2012
Threads: 1068
Posts: 12569
Quote: AZDuffman
The hard part, the part my assistant manager missed, was that as the bid price went up the salesman commission went up and thus the profit margin went down.


The Economic Recovery Tax Act of 1981 slashed the highest rate from 70 to 50 percent, and indexed the brackets for inflation. Then, the Tax Reform Act of 1986, claiming that it was a two-tiered flat tax, expanded the tax base and dropped the top rate to 28 percent for tax years beginning in 1988.4 The hype here was that the broader base contained fewer deductions, but brought in the same revenue. Further, lawmakers claimed that they would never have to raise the 28 percent top rate.
The 28 percent top rate promise lasted three years before it was broken.During the 1990s, the top rate jumped to 39.6 percent.

I was married in 1987 and I remember my ex-wife taking financial planning courses. The instructor said that since the tax rate was now 31% if their clients wanted to take home $100K after taxes they needed to make $131K before taxes. Susan said wasn't the figure closer to $150K. The instructor yelled at her and said that the top tax rate hadn't been 50% since 1986.

Not a single person in the class including the instructor knew the difference between adding a percentage or taking away a percentage.
March 4th, 2019 at 4:59:18 AM permalink
AZDuffman
Member since: Oct 24, 2012
Threads: 135
Posts: 18136
Quote: Pacomartin
The Economic Recovery Tax Act of 1981 slashed the highest rate from 70 to 50 percent, and indexed the brackets for inflation. Then, the Tax Reform Act of 1986, claiming that it was a two-tiered flat tax, expanded the tax base and dropped the top rate to 28 percent for tax years beginning in 1988.4 The hype here was that the broader base contained fewer deductions, but brought in the same revenue. Further, lawmakers claimed that they would never have to raise the 28 percent top rate.
The 28 percent top rate promise lasted three years before it was broken.During the 1990s, the top rate jumped to 39.6 percent.

I was married in 1987 and I remember my ex-wife taking financial planning courses. The instructor said that since the tax rate was now 31% if their clients wanted to take home $100K after taxes they needed to make $131K before taxes. Susan said wasn't the figure closer to $150K. The instructor yelled at her and said that the top tax rate hadn't been 50% since 1986.

Not a single person in the class including the instructor knew the difference between adding a percentage or taking away a percentage.


The same concept got famous during the dotcom bust of 2000 when people lost 50% and were told they needed to make 100% to make that back up. It is knowing this kind of thing that puts you above average in smarts and gets you into bar arguments with the below average folks.

For some reason this reminds me of another one, this one stumped me. Assume a clock is at 90 degrees at 3:00. What degrees will the hands be at when it is 3:05. (HINT: AM or PM might make a difference.)
The President is a fink.
March 4th, 2019 at 5:18:45 AM permalink
Pacomartin
Member since: Oct 24, 2012
Threads: 1068
Posts: 12569
Quote: Wizard
I never heard of an algebra II class. I went right onto geometry after algebra. Those were the days.

When I went to school, 9th grade was called algebra I, 10th grade was geometry, and 11th grade was algebra II and trigonometry, and 12th grade was pre-calculus. Personally, I got a little bored in 12th grade so a few months in they bumped me up to Calculus AB.
March 4th, 2019 at 6:05:10 AM permalink
Wizard
Administrator
Member since: Oct 23, 2012
Threads: 239
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Quote: AZDuffman
Why has someone never written an Algebra text book that does this? Wiz?


My sixth-grade daughter is doing problems like this right now.

As to my math teachers, some were great who I partially owe my good life to, passing on an excitement and love for math. Others just seemed to want to get through the day and go home.

I taught a class on gaming math at UNLV twice and no matter how hard I tried and repeated things, some kids just never got simple concepts how many ways can you choose x items out of y.

I can't speak to the text books you're referring to, but the ones my kids use/used seem pretty good.
Knowledge is Good -- Emil Faber
March 4th, 2019 at 6:07:04 AM permalink
Wizard
Administrator
Member since: Oct 23, 2012
Threads: 239
Posts: 6095
Quote: Pacomartin
When I went to school, 9th grade was called algebra I, 10th grade was geometry, and 11th grade was algebra II and trigonometry, and 12th grade was pre-calculus. Personally, I got a little bored in 12th grade so a few months in they bumped me up to Calculus AB.


Now that I think about it, my 11th grade class was probably called "Algebra II/trig." For the kids on a slower path, they were broken down into separate classes. As I recall, it was mostly trigonometry, which is probably why I initially thought it was just a trig class.
Knowledge is Good -- Emil Faber
March 4th, 2019 at 6:12:37 AM permalink
ams288
Member since: Apr 21, 2016
Threads: 29
Posts: 12422
Quote: Pacomartin
When I went to school, 9th grade was called algebra I, 10th grade was geometry, and 11th grade was algebra II and trigonometry, and 12th grade was pre-calculus. Personally, I got a little bored in 12th grade so a few months in they bumped me up to Calculus AB.


This was how it was in my high school as well. Advanced students started Geometry in 9th grade and made it up to Calculus in 12th.

What I never understood was why is Pre-Calculus harder than Calculus?
“A straight man will not go for kids.” - AZDuffman
March 4th, 2019 at 6:49:16 AM permalink
AZDuffman
Member since: Oct 24, 2012
Threads: 135
Posts: 18136
Quote: Wizard
My sixth-grade daughter is doing problems like this right now.

As to my math teachers, some were great who I partially owe my good life to, passing on an excitement and love for math. Others just seemed to want to get through the day and go home.


Always going to have some of that. Teachers don't always get that they have to get their class to pay attention. A good example is what Rush Limbaugh credits to his success. He was a DJ in the 1970s and said you soon learn that everyone can play the same songs. It is up to you to use your personality to get people to listen. Same in math. Math is the same, as a teacher it is your job to make it exciting.

Some people can make it exciting and some can not. Some are excited about math but cannot communicate that. There is an episode of "Head of the Class" where the one student's dad is the only available guy in the city to substitute teach their high level math but his teaching skills are awful. Maybe math teachers need to take some kind of class in college that just shows them how to be an exciting teacher?

Quote:
I taught a class on gaming math at UNLV twice and no matter how hard I tried and repeated things, some kids just never got simple concepts how many ways can you choose x items out of y.


I'd be interested to hear more detail on this. I remember you mentioning you taught a class. I would think you would make a class more interesting than others. Would probably be a good Massive Open Online Course.

OTOH, even though my teaching of gaming is probably <1% of what you taught in that course I can see what you mean. Some people pick up dice probability pretty easy, others make me want to go home and stick my head in my oven.

Quote:
I can't speak to the text books you're referring to, but the ones my kids use/used seem pretty good.


My thought is they may seem good from a technical standpoint but miss being "readable." Mine were very, very dry. IMHO the time is here to make a book/video combo. Time to automate the learning, kind of thing where you watch the video and do the problems. Until you get it right you cannot unlock the next step.
The President is a fink.
March 4th, 2019 at 8:01:45 AM permalink
DRich
Member since: Oct 24, 2012
Threads: 51
Posts: 4944
Quote: Wizard
I never heard of an algebra II class. I went right onto geometry after algebra. Those were the days.


I am surprised. We had Algebra, then Geometry/Trig, then Algebra II, then Calculus.

My favorite/worst story from Algebra was when we were doing story problems. Our test had 11 problems to solve and I was the only one in the class to get all 11 correct. The teacher failed me for not showing my work as I did them all in my head. I argued with him all year about that trying to convince him the goal was to learn to solve problems and why would it matter in what manner I solved them. The bastard gave me a B in the class.
At my age a Life In Prison sentence is not much of a detrrent.
March 4th, 2019 at 8:45:35 AM permalink
AZDuffman
Member since: Oct 24, 2012
Threads: 135
Posts: 18136
Quote: DRich
I am surprised. We had Algebra, then Geometry/Trig, then Algebra II, then Calculus.

My favorite/worst story from Algebra was when we were doing story problems. Our test had 11 problems to solve and I was the only one in the class to get all 11 correct. The teacher failed me for not showing my work as I did them all in my head. I argued with him all year about that trying to convince him the goal was to learn to solve problems and why would it matter in what manner I solved them. The bastard gave me a B in the class.


Sounds like that scene in "The Sopranos" where Tony tells the councilman, "That's why you're a bureaucrat and I'm a businessman."
The President is a fink.
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