The Gay Thread

March 1st, 2021 at 2:57:04 AM permalink
AZDuffman
Member since: Oct 24, 2012
Threads: 135
Posts: 18136
Quote: Gandler



I don't want to get into an argument of gay people conspiring fake marriages to cover themselves socially, because I know I will not change your view, and this has already been hashed out plenty....

But, do you really believe 98% of the women in that league are gay (specifically gay/lesbian, not bisexual)? That is quite a claim. Even 60% would be absurd. But, 98% ? .....


You do not want the argument because it has been proven that you are on the wrong side of it. Maybe just agree that it happens more than people realize and leave it at that.

The NHL was once actually 98% Canadian. Kind of insane when you consider that even in the 70s/80s when this happened that there had to be more good American players. But it happened.

She could be exaggerating at 98% as that is the kind of number one says when it feels like that is all there is. I was on a cruise once where we got a chance to chat with one of the female performers and she said that "all" the male performers onboard were gay. A far smaller sample so it is possible to know for sure there, but perhaps also just stating that males who were performing in dance and musical numbers fit a profile such that even the straight ones will not be considered as such?

The higher the level of basketball the more the women's game gets this reputation. Female basketball coaches have had the reputation forever. Similar to female PGA players. Some of the players might just not be pursuing a relationship and focusing on their careers and get lumped in.

See, you need to take the 98% figure seriously and figuratively, not literally. The real issue is that it points out that these gay players treat straight women awful. I am thinking you are more upset that it shows that gays are not these happy, inclusive folks you say they are but rather are pretty awful people in this case. You are upset that it does not promote the gay narrative that all they want is to be accepted.
The President is a fink.
March 1st, 2021 at 7:42:24 AM permalink
DRich
Member since: Oct 24, 2012
Threads: 51
Posts: 4944
Quote: Gandler

But, do you really believe 98% of the women in that league are gay (specifically gay/lesbian, not bisexual)? That is quite a claim. Even 60% would be absurd. But, 98% ? .....



I would agree that 98% is probably not true. I would believe 60%.
At my age a Life In Prison sentence is not much of a detrrent.
March 1st, 2021 at 7:54:01 AM permalink
SOOPOO
Member since: Feb 19, 2014
Threads: 22
Posts: 4157
Quote: DRich
I would agree that 98% is probably not true. I would believe 60%.


I’d believe any percentage that significantly exceeds the generally accepted national average for all women, if a study/survey/poll of WNBA players was done by an independent investigator. No way it is 98%. 60% is possible.
March 1st, 2021 at 1:31:20 PM permalink
terapined
Member since: Aug 6, 2014
Threads: 73
Posts: 11786
Quote: DRich
I would agree that 98% is probably not true. I would believe 60%.

I dont believe 60%
I believe the number is closer to whatever the % is for the general population.
Regardless
I'm a huge womens basketball fan
Follow my Maryland women closely
Watched my girls yesterday beat MN on ESPN2
The sexual orientation of my girls is totally immaterial to me. Not sure why it's even a matter of discussion. I have no interest in what goes on in anyones bedroom
Sometimes we live no particular way but our own - Grateful Dead "Eyes of the World"
March 1st, 2021 at 4:18:38 PM permalink
Gandler
Member since: Aug 15, 2019
Threads: 27
Posts: 4236
Quote: AZDuffman
You do not want the argument because it has been proven that you are on the wrong side of it. Maybe just agree that it happens more than people realize and leave it at that.


I have agreed that it happens. But, I was never on the wrong side of it. My point was in the discussion, you can't call somebody gay if they are straight married and have been in straight relationships their whole life. Maybe you can call them bisexual, maybe, but for the discussion at hand it related to child abuse, and I don't think that the gender of the victim was relevant....

Quote: AZDuffman
The NHL was once actually 98% Canadian. Kind of insane when you consider that even in the 70s/80s when this happened that there had to be more good American players. But it happened.


I don't follow sports so I will take your word for it, but national origin of players in a particular sport is not really the same as sexual orientation (geography factors into what sports certain regions are into and will produce more players etc....)

Quote: AZDuffman
She could be exaggerating at 98% as that is the kind of number one says when it feels like that is all there is. I was on a cruise once where we got a chance to chat with one of the female performers and she said that "all" the male performers onboard were gay. A far smaller sample so it is possible to know for sure there, but perhaps also just stating that males who were performing in dance and musical numbers fit a profile such that even the straight ones will not be considered as such?

The higher the level of basketball the more the women's game gets this reputation. Female basketball coaches have had the reputation forever. Similar to female PGA players. Some of the players might just not be pursuing a relationship and focusing on their careers and get lumped in.

See, you need to take the 98% figure seriously and figuratively, not literally. The real issue is that it points out that these gay players treat straight women awful. I am thinking you are more upset that it shows that gays are not these happy, inclusive folks you say they are but rather are pretty awful people in this case. You are upset that it does not promote the gay narrative that all they want is to be accepted.


I have done some very brief research on gay bullying in female basketball. All I can find are articles by the same woman. I am not saying that she is lying, but she even admitted there were other factors involved (competing for attention etc....) , if gay bullying was such a problem I think more people than one person posting multiple articles and interviews would be easy to find. If I had to guess, she had a bad experience, did not mesh well with her team, and blamed it on them being gay....

Of course nobody here would ever defend bullying of anyone for their sexual orientation. I am just highly skeptical that is the full story (at most it may be one piece of a very complicated team dynamic). Nobody pushing the "gay narrative" would ever defend any kind of bullying (even if it had nothing to do with sexual orientation). But, this sounds like a clear case of teammates not meshing, and somebody blaming it on other factors.

In any case the 98% number is clearly wrong, and I am not sure how "taking it seriously not literally" is helpful. I have once had a conservative say that exact same line about Trump and his claims "He is the kind of man to be taken seriously not literally" when pointing out clear falsehoods in published statements, it does not make sense now nor then. If you think most people are gay say "there are many gays" or "most of my team seemed to be gay", instead of consistently reporting the same statistic (that she clearly made up).
March 1st, 2021 at 4:51:32 PM permalink
SOOPOO
Member since: Feb 19, 2014
Threads: 22
Posts: 4157
Gandler..... of course it would now be third hand.... but my friend whose daughter was a top level college player was aware of the gay bullying schools when she was in high school. I doubt she and her dad were making it up. I’ve played with a few women who were college players, and I knew one was gay, as I went to her wedding. The rest I never even thought about their sexual orientation. If I had to bet, I don’t think they would have been bullies.
March 1st, 2021 at 5:28:33 PM permalink
Gandler
Member since: Aug 15, 2019
Threads: 27
Posts: 4236
Quote: SOOPOO
Gandler..... of course it would now be third hand.... but my friend whose daughter was a top level college player was aware of the gay bullying schools when she was in high school. I doubt she and her dad were making it up. I’ve played with a few women who were college players, and I knew one was gay, as I went to her wedding. The rest I never even thought about their sexual orientation. If I had to bet, I don’t think they would have been bullies.


I honestly have not heard of it. I don't know your friend's daughter's experience obviously, but it sounds like she never experienced it, just heard rumors? This seems like it could very easily be fear mongering. I know very little about sports, and even less about basketball (probably the sport I could not even name three teams off of the top of my head), and even far less about women's basketball so I am just reacting based on what seems reasonable.

I have never been in a college level sports team, but have played various sports in passing. Never once has sexual orientation every come up.... I find it hard to believe most people would care when playing sports about such things.

But, to your overall point, I don't think most people are bullies. However, those that are will exploit perceived weaknesses. So if a bully is straight and the victim is gay this is a clear point of harassments, and I would imagine it goes in reverse as well. I think blaming bullies for being gay, or part of the gay narrative is wrong.

Gay people can be crappy just like straight people can be. And, I would guess gay bullies would exploit perceived weakness as well (such as a woman being straight). I can't speak from a female perspective obviously, but I have seen a lot of gay majority organizations such as theatre, and never once would anyone care straight members or bully them or even openly discuss the subject....
I am not saying it does not happen, but I am just not buying the argument that when gay people are in a majority they will bully based on sexual orientation, it just does not happen. Most people (gay or straight) simply don't care about your personal life.

My biggest point of umbrage with the post that I responded to was that the "gay narrative" was trying to cover this up. Nobody thinks gay people are prefect, just equal, which means there will be plenty of crappy gay people just as there are plenty of crappy straight people (which in some extreme cases probably includes mocking somebody for being different if they feel it can give them an edge in whatever organization). In fact if you listen to most gay speakers, this is a common theme, nobody is saying gay people are great or perfect (though many conservatives act like there is some agenda to make gay people appear infallible, which is just not true and laughable).

I think this goes back the the point of gender neutral playing. You mention that you play basketball with women. I see no reason why there should be an NBA and WNBA or any other league variation at college levels. It seems like if everyone just played together it would solve a lot of problems (including perceived problems). I think sports should be integrated when possible.
March 1st, 2021 at 6:05:56 PM permalink
SOOPOO
Member since: Feb 19, 2014
Threads: 22
Posts: 4157
To be fair.... I had no contact with him after his daughter graduated from high school. I’m just telling you she DID NOT CONSIDER the schools that were known to be ‘straight unfriendly’ schools. I googled her, and she went to Stanford and Harvard. I have no idea what her experiences were at those schools.

And you obviously are quite naive about the level of women’s basketball. The fact that I could play with a Division 1 female player at my age and physical
Limitations is telling. And was generally ‘better’ than them. When we would ‘pick teams’ the females were never among the top picks. We had some D-3 men players, who although I played with them, their talent level was leagues above me. Pick the #50 college men’s team, and they beat a WNBA all star team by 40 if they want to.

Edit. Also played at Michigan.
March 2nd, 2021 at 2:28:37 AM permalink
AZDuffman
Member since: Oct 24, 2012
Threads: 135
Posts: 18136
Quote: SOOPOO


And you obviously are quite naive about the level of women’s basketball.



It is really one of those things that it is hard not to have heard about. Ditto LPGA tour. Unless you live in a PC bubble you have to have heard about it. Even watching you can see the stereotype look on several of the players.
The President is a fink.
March 2nd, 2021 at 2:47:03 AM permalink
AZDuffman
Member since: Oct 24, 2012
Threads: 135
Posts: 18136
Quote: Gandler
I have agreed that it happens. But, I was never on the wrong side of it. My point was in the discussion, you can't call somebody gay if they are straight married and have been in straight relationships their whole life. Maybe you can call them bisexual, maybe, but for the discussion at hand it related to child abuse, and I don't think that the gender of the victim was relevant....


You still honestly do not believe that gay people take a beard to live a secret life? Gays will also sometimes take a spouse to have kids then go back to being gay. I have met at least one. I have heard of more. And yes, you are on the wrong side of it as you deny gays molest youth males. You defend the gay message all the time.

Quote:
I don't follow sports so I will take your word for it, but national origin of players in a particular sport is not really the same as sexual orientation (geography factors into what sports certain regions are into and will produce more players etc....)


In the case I gave it is insane as hockey even then was popular in several USA cities. The USA has 10Xs the population of Canada yet Canada had 98% of the players? The point is sometimes a certain group dominates a certain sport.



Quote:
I have done some very brief research on gay bullying in female basketball. All I can find are articles by the same woman. I am not saying that she is lying, but she even admitted there were other factors involved (competing for attention etc....) , if gay bullying was such a problem I think more people than one person posting multiple articles and interviews would be easy to find. If I had to guess, she had a bad experience, did not mesh well with her team, and blamed it on them being gay....

Of course nobody here would ever defend bullying of anyone for their sexual orientation. I am just highly skeptical that is the full story (at most it may be one piece of a very complicated team dynamic). Nobody pushing the "gay narrative" would ever defend any kind of bullying (even if it had nothing to do with sexual orientation). But, this sounds like a clear case of teammates not meshing, and somebody blaming it on other factors.

In any case the 98% number is clearly wrong, and I am not sure how "taking it seriously not literally" is helpful. I have once had a conservative say that exact same line about Trump and his claims "He is the kind of man to be taken seriously not literally" when pointing out clear falsehoods in published statements, it does not make sense now nor then. If you think most people are gay say "there are many gays" or "most of my team seemed to be gay", instead of consistently reporting the same statistic (that she clearly made up).


People pushing the gay narrative deny it all the time, why would they not defend it? But seriously, you need to learn when to take things serious not literal. Because people who take things literal miss the point when they try to debunk a point by trying to find an exception or say some number is not right. Kind of like a guy who gets accused of stealing $20,000 and defends himself by saying "YOU ARE A LIAR, IT WAS $13,000!" What is more important? That the number was wrong or that he is a thief?

So in this case the important thing is not the 98% number in and of itself, the important thing is the toxic gay culture in the WNBA. As to "research" I do not know what kind of research you need to do. To say that women's basketball attracts more gay females the higher the level is the same as telling someone professional wrestling is fake. Maybe you have to be told when you are in junior high, but eventually you just realize it.

The WNBA itself is mostly a joke. Been playing 25 years now and still has no serious fan base. Would not exist if not for the NBA supporting it.
The President is a fink.