Israel deny entry for American congresswomen

Quote: Gandler

Wow Gaza has always been bad.

Now there is reason to root for the Settlers to take back the West Bank.

The truth is, and many fellow liberals have trouble accepting this, Palestine (Gaza more so, but really both territories) is not a good place to be gay or be an atheist if you value your life. They have a backwards culture, it's as simple as that, and people will still defend them.

Palestine culture revolves around being professional victim and pretending to be oppressed by Isreal.....

Gaza is just bad, period. I've met people that went to Israel for vacation/pilgrimage. One hit both the West Bank and Golan Heights. The West Bank I was not totally surprised, but I was about Golan. They said they had security but it was not all that bad. I asked about the Gaza Strip and they said they were told "No way!" Gaza is like one of those movies where they seal off a city, make it a prison, and let the inmates run it.

Quote: Gandler

The truth is, and many fellow liberals have trouble accepting this, Palestine (Gaza more so, but really both territories) is not a good place to be gay or be an atheist if you value your life. They have a backwards culture, it's as simple as that, and people will still defend them.

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14 countries or jurisdictions impose the death penalty for homosexuality. These include Afghanistan, Brunei, Iran, Mauritania, Pakistan, Qatar, Saudi Arabia, Sudan, Yemen, the United Arab Emirates, and parts of Nigeria, Somalia, Syria and Iraq.

https://nomadicboys.com/gay-friendly-arab-countries/

Seems like there are plenty of places to be gay openly in the middle east?

Tel Aviv has the largest gay pride festival on the eastern Mediterranean.

Palestinians I don't think have ever said they were pro gay. I'm for allowing them enough earth to practice what they believe as well.

If you think it's tough in the West Bank being gay, try it in Saudi Arabia. Israel's bff, next to US, UK.

Quote: rxwine

14 countries or jurisdictions impose the death penalty for homosexuality. These include Afghanistan, Brunei, Iran, Mauritania, Pakistan, Qatar, Saudi Arabia, Sudan, Yemen, the United Arab Emirates, and parts of Nigeria, Somalia, Syria and Iraq.

Right, as somebody earlier, ironically mentioned Dubai as an example of a progressive city...…

Qatar also has rich and pretty cities, cut is very backwards.

There is an even larger list of countries where homosexuality is illegal (and not given the death penalty but stiff fines and/or jail.....) Many of the countries have a common denominator….

Wealth does not equal progress, especially not in Religiously controlled countries.

And, yes I am aware Israel is a "Jewish State" as well, but it is run pretty secular, and actually protects minority communities.


America was the first secular country in the world. And, it is still one of the few secular countries (no government/official religion), even the UK still has an official Church and reserved political spots for their Church.....

Quote: Gandler

America was the first secular country in the world. And, it is still one of the few secular countries (no government/official religion), even the UK still has an official Church and reserved political spots for their Church.....

I am not sure how you are defining "secular" for this. Christianity was dominant at the founding and for 100+ years thereafter. All kinds of legal documents are dated "In the Year of Our Lord 1xxx." In many cases one could not testify in court without taking an oath on a Bible. Blue Laws mandated store closure well past WWII, with a few still left over. To this day car dealers are closed Sundays here in PA.

The Israeli guy who worked for me was amazed how much religion was in the USA for a country with no official religion.

Quote: AZDuffman

I am not sure how you are defining "secular" for this. Christianity was dominant at the founding and for 100+ years thereafter. All kinds of legal documents are dated "In the Year of Our Lord 1xxx." In many cases one could not testify in court without taking an oath on a Bible. Blue Laws mandated store closure well past WWII, with a few still left over. To this day car dealers are closed Sundays here in PA.

The Israeli guy who worked for me was amazed how much religion was in the USA for a country with no official religion.

America has always been majority religious. But, it was founded very specifically to have no official religion. Only a secular country can provide true free speech and freedom of religion protection to all people.

"America is not a Christian County" - George Washington.

And, during the Barbary Wars, when the Islamic Pirates were negotiating with America, Thomas Jefferson made a point to state that America is not a Christian country (because the Islamists during that war enslaved American sailors under religious doctrine and charged the U.S. to buy them back freedom)….

Quote: Gandler

America has always been majority religious. But, it was founded very specifically to have no official religion. Only a secular country can provide true free speech and freedom of religion protection to all people.

"America is not a Christian County" - George Washington.

And, during the Barbary Wars, when the Islamic Pirates were negotiating with America, Thomas Jefferson made a point to state that America is not a Christian country (because the Islamists during that war enslaved American sailors under religious doctrine and charged the U.S. to buy them back freedom)….

It depends on how you define "not." There is no official religion. But up and down Christianity is intertwined in USA history.

It is more accurate to say we have a "secular government." Even that is not 100% accurate as "In God We Trust" is the national motto. So "non-denominational" could be even better.

Quote: AZDuffman

It depends on how you define "not." There is no official religion. But up and down Christianity is intertwined in USA history.

It is more accurate to say we have a "secular government." Even that is not 100% accurate as "In God We Trust" is the national motto. So "non-denominational" could be even better.

That is misleading. In God we Trust was adopted in the 1950s to replace "As many One" which I feel was a much better motto. That was not the motto for most of U.S. history, it was pushed into place by religious advocates (a decision I feel was wrong, but before my time).

But, yes obviously I mean secular government. The U.S. has no official religion, and the government was crafted specifically to be secular for very good reasons.

Quote: Gandler

That is misleading. In God we Trust was adopted in the 1950s to replace "As many One" which I feel was a much better motto. That was not the motto for most of U.S. history, it was pushed into place by religious advocates (a decision I feel was wrong, but before my time).

But, yes obviously I mean secular government. The U.S. has no official religion, and the government was crafted specifically to be secular for very good reasons.

It was put into place to contrast to the USSR which had an official policy of atheism, though it allowed some churches to remain open in not discouraging the younger people from attending. Ditto China, also a policy of atheism.

Quote: AZDuffman

It was put into place to contrast to the USSR which had an official policy of atheism, though it allowed some churches to remain open in not discouraging the younger people from attending. Ditto China, also a policy of atheism.

Right, that strain of Communism was against traditional religions.

You can argue that some of the strains were religious (North Korea) in the way that citizens were forced to worship the Leader as a God, which mythical stories about everything from their birth to amazing feats, etc..... True communism is essentially a religion is the way Leader Worship and ways of life are pushed onto followers.

There is a difference between a policy of forced atheism, and a secular country, which protects freedom of religion and freedom of speech...…