Columbus Day or Indiginous People'd Day?

October 16th, 2019 at 3:49:39 PM permalink
Tanko
Member since: Aug 15, 2019
Threads: 0
Posts: 1964
Enormous wealth was his motivation. He was guaranteed titles and ten percent of all the revenues from the new lands in perpetuity.

In four voyages, to the New World, he never once set foot on North America.

Lief Ericson landed in North America 500 years before Columbus was born.

Columbus stumbled upon what is now the Dominican Republic, where he didn’t waste any time getting to murdering, enslaving and mistreating the population.

"Columbus and his crew searched and searched for gold to no avail, so they filled their ships with something else they could sell: people. Of the 500 Taíno they took — selected because they were the strongest and healthiest specimens — 200 died on the voyage to Spain. Many more died once they had been sold into slavery.” Article

His son became the first slave trader in the America’s.
October 16th, 2019 at 4:53:20 PM permalink
rxwine
Member since: Oct 24, 2012
Threads: 188
Posts: 18633
I can't help it if people have made Columbus legacy into a sacred cow. Looks like that cow needs to be butchered.
You believe in an invisible god, and dismiss people who say they are trans? Really?
October 16th, 2019 at 5:18:14 PM permalink
terapined
Member since: Aug 6, 2014
Threads: 73
Posts: 11786
Quote: rxwine
I can't help it if people have made Columbus legacy into a sacred cow. Looks like that cow needs to be butchered.

I don't have a problem with Columbus day as a holiday.
Its not even really a holiday in my eyes. I don't get off from work. Its one of those holidays that I pretty much ignore like ash Wednesday
Its a milestone in human history. Sure it can viewed as a negative milestone but its still a massive milestone
Celebrate the milestone and not the man. How about celebrating the crew. Celebrating the ships.
I also have no problem educating people on the reality of Columbus.
Sometimes we live no particular way but our own - Grateful Dead "Eyes of the World"
October 17th, 2019 at 4:10:57 AM permalink
AZDuffman
Member since: Oct 24, 2012
Threads: 135
Posts: 18136
Quote: rxwine
I can't help it if people have made Columbus legacy into a sacred cow. Looks like that cow needs to be butchered.


So, are you in favor of "butchering" MLK day? He cheated on his wife all the time and there were many riots after he left town.

Or are you just trying to remove those dead white guys from history because the lefty culture says they are bad?
The President is a fink.
October 17th, 2019 at 4:58:23 AM permalink
rxwine
Member since: Oct 24, 2012
Threads: 188
Posts: 18633
Quote: AZDuffman
So, are you in favor of "butchering" MLK day? He cheated on his wife all the time and there were many riots after he left town.

Or are you just trying to remove those dead white guys from history because the lefty culture says they are bad?


Does righty culture say a mass murderer and torturer are good? Not like there was any justification for it.

MLK ought to hold up quite well by comparison.

Never called for Columbus to be scrubbed from history either.
You believe in an invisible god, and dismiss people who say they are trans? Really?
October 17th, 2019 at 5:07:56 AM permalink
AZDuffman
Member since: Oct 24, 2012
Threads: 135
Posts: 18136
Quote: rxwine
Does righty culture say a mass murderer and torturer are good? Not like there was any justification for it.


We call for looking at how things were at the time, not today's standards. IOW, we act like grown-ups.

Quote:
Never called for Columbus to be scrubbed from history either.


You just did!

Quote: rxwine
I can't help it if people have made Columbus legacy into a sacred cow. Looks like that cow needs to be butchered.
The President is a fink.
October 17th, 2019 at 6:06:07 AM permalink
rxwine
Member since: Oct 24, 2012
Threads: 188
Posts: 18633
Quote: AZDuffman
We call for looking at how things were at the time, not today's standards. IOW, we act like grown-ups.


You're already stated the worst possible standards for any civilization. Are there any worse? When the f___ were they okay? There wasn't even a war to explain it. Just sheer barbarism.

Quote:
You just did!



Nope, and I made that point more than once

Quote:
Doesn’t mean he doesn’t get credit for what he did that is notable. Genghis Khan gets credit for spreading his DNA the farthest but there’s no reason to pretend he is a humanitarian.


Scrubbing is erasing. But changing whether we celebrate someone or not is different than erasing.
You believe in an invisible god, and dismiss people who say they are trans? Really?
October 17th, 2019 at 7:12:46 AM permalink
aceofspades
Member since: Oct 24, 2012
Threads: 83
Posts: 2019
Quote: rxwine
You're already stated the worst possible standards for any civilization. Are there any worse? When the f___ were they okay? There wasn't even a war to explain it. Just sheer barbarism.




Nope, and I made that point more than once



Scrubbing is erasing. But changing whether we celebrate someone or not is different than erasing.



Columbus brought diversity
Diversity is our strength!!!
October 17th, 2019 at 3:04:48 PM permalink
Gandler
Member since: Aug 15, 2019
Threads: 27
Posts: 4236
Quote: terapined
I don't have a problem with Columbus day as a holiday.
Its not even really a holiday in my eyes. I don't get off from work. Its one of those holidays that I pretty much ignore like ash Wednesday
Its a milestone in human history. Sure it can viewed as a negative milestone but its still a massive milestone
Celebrate the milestone and not the man. How about celebrating the crew. Celebrating the ships.
I also have no problem educating people on the reality of Columbus.


I agree, I think it is critical for educating on all sides of every issue.

I don't think it was a negative milestone. Most who were killed, died because of disease, not war (plenty died in battles with the Spanish government as well). But, the Spanish did far more long term good with their discovery and colonization.

How many Natives would have died if they did not have the technologies and improvements from colonization?
October 17th, 2019 at 8:23:29 PM permalink
Evenbob
Member since: Oct 24, 2012
Threads: 146
Posts: 25010
Quote: Gandler


How many Natives would have died if they did not have the technologies and improvements from colonization?


Native Americans were basically still
in the Stone Age. They had no tech
at all. No bronze or iron, very few
had a written language. As a whole
they just weren't all that bright.
That can be the only explanation.
They had the same needs as Europeans,
and they certainly had the natural
resources. They just didn't have the
brain power to pull themselves out
of the Stone Age.
If you take a risk, you may lose. If you never take a risk, you will always lose.