Saint John Henry Newman

Quote: Evenbob

Shhh. You'll make FrG angry, mean and vicious with your belief..Of course this 'saint' is dead and gone and not listening to anybodies prayers.

There is such a thing as tact however. I've had some measure of experience with Search And Rescue matters. Relatives tend to want ever more resources devoted to a search and ever more searchers to be placed at risk despite what many see as an obvious fate. Even when there is an acceptance of a yacht having sunk and all hands having been lost, no funeral is held. It is a Celebration of Life and the words death and funeral are not mentioned. The first row center table is empty and bears a small, dignified sign "Reserved for the Crew". we recognize such actions as a measure of respect and tolerance. Perhaps we should let FrGamble have his unique viewpoints.

Quote: Wizard

I'd be happy to believe if I had some evidence to go on. It doesn't even need to be a rock-solid case. I just need to get to 51%. I'm at about 5% right now.

The thing is, it is called "faith" for a reason. You do not get "proofs" as in science and math. To use a contemporary example, watch the end of "Pulp Fiction" where Jules feels he was saved because of a divine intervention. "Science" says the guy had bad aim for whatever reason, faith says a force acted on that science to make it happen.

I will though put up my rock-solid position. Show how life came from a lifeless universe. How did life come on earth from no life? Science has disproved spontaneous generation. Something made it happen.

Quote: AZDuffman

I will though put up my rock-solid position. Show how life came from a lifeless universe.

How do you know it was a lifeless
universe, you're assuming it was.
Where's your proof it was lifeless.
Also, where's the proof that the
universe hasn't been here forever.
Not the billions of galaxies, they
exist within the universe. How
do you know the big bang wasn't
just one of an infinite number of
big bangs, collapse and rebirth,
that goes on forever.

Far too many questions with no
answers for me to put my 'faith'
in some cobbled together god
made up by wandering Jews
9000 years ago. Till I get actual
proof of a god, one does not exist
for me. At least Mike has a picture
of him in Australia, so it might
actually exist. God believers have
nothing except faith. In other words,
they have nothing.

Quote: AZDuffman

The thing is, it is called "faith" for a reason.

I think both sides would agree on that. That's why people believe in god, they don't "know" in god. For example, I believe the theory of evolution, but I'm not 100% on it. But I know Australia exists.

Quote: Wizard

I But I know Australia exists.

We're taking your word on that,
the pic could have been photo
shopped.

Quote: Evenbob

How do you know it was a lifeless
universe, you're assuming it was.
Where's your proof it was lifeless.
Also, where's the proof that the
universe hasn't been here forever.
Not the billions of galaxies, they
exist within the universe. How
do you know the big bang wasn't
just one of an infinite number of
big bangs, collapse and rebirth,
that goes on forever.

Where is you proof that there was always life? Where is your proof that life can be infinite? If you have that proof, please answer if the chicken or egg came first.

We know that there is no life anywhere else in our solar system. We know that Earth is much younger than most of the universe. We know that life as we know it was not possible for perhaps the first billion years Earth was here.

If you are ready to explain how life can be infinite with no beginning they maybe you can do something besides blow smoke. I am ready to hear a scientific way this is possible.

Quote: Wizard

I think both sides would agree on that. That's why people believe in god, they don't "know" in god. For example, I believe the theory of evolution, but I'm not 100% on it. But I know Australia exists.

An interesting example. Science shows evolution should not happen just as much as it says it should. A reason some people have to say "mother nature" instead of "God." It is closest some people can get to giving up the arrogant position that there is a higher power than mankind. (NOTE: not you on that last part.)

Quote: AZDuffman

If you are ready to explain how life can be infinite with no beginning .

Nothing can be explained, that's the
point. You have no proof of your
belief, I have no proof of mine.
Hinduism believes the universe
is born and dies over and over.
Xtionity believes something else.
Seems kind of silly to be bound
to beliefs when proof doesn't
exist. Because once you believe
something on faith, you invent
all kinds of other things to bolster
it, as organized religion always
does.

Quote: Evenbob

Nothing can be explained, that's the
point. You have no proof of your
belief, I have no proof of mine.
Hinduism believes the universe
is born and dies over and over.
Xtionity believes something else.
Seems kind of silly to be bound
to beliefs when proof doesn't
exist. Because once you believe
something on faith, you invent
all kinds of other things to bolster
it, as organized religion always
does.

This is a fine position. Just do not pretend you have anything more than your faith backing up your position. What you accuse FrG and any other believer of you are doing the same, just the contrary position.

Quote: AZDuffman

Science shows evolution should not happen just as much as it says it should.

I was not aware of that. Can you expand on that point?