Is the PC "Dying"?

Quote: TheCesspit

Indeed. My point still stands. It was a big change.

Yes, but it also allowed for more and better functionality.

I hardly recall Win3.1, but one thing I vividly remember is that when you had a program running maximized, you couldn't see what else you had open. With Win95's taskbar you could amximize the priogram and still see what other programs were open and running. Better yet, you could close them without having to maximize them.

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The Win 8 changes are not unnecessary for a desktop PC, for one that has to try and hold it's market.

the whole Metro/modern/Whatever interface makes zero sense on a PC, IMO. The Win 8 desktop is less functional than the previous versions, save perhaps Win3.1. It isn't just the lack of a Start button, but also having to go to the "charms" bar on the side when you want to change some settings. it would be abd enough for all the settings, but for some it's worse. now you need to remember what particular setting is changed by what particular means. it's a mess.

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Metro -by itself- would be completely fine. It wouldn't -sell- though as a Windows distribution.

It would be fine on a tablet, perhaps on a phone. It's horrible, as is, on a desktop or a laptop. Literally I couldn't have imagined something so bad in my worst nightmares.

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I disgree with the vehemence you hold it in.

You can't disagree. You don't know how irritating I find it. You don't know how many things took me a long time to figure out how to do, and now they take more effort and time to do as well. it's not just the ribbon, though that's bad enough, but the fact that even the headings were changed. Worse, I use the mouse wheel a lot to scroll trhough documents. If, perchance, I left the pointer by the ribbon, the damned thing scrolls through the ribbon. How does that make sense?

There. Now you know perhaps 2% of my issues with Office 2013.

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Win Office has changed immeasurably since 1993 (when I first used it, and then only barely).

Yes, certainly. But since 95 through 2003 the basic usage was exactly the same.

BTW, here's the aprt where I say somethign consiliatory like "Oh, there ahve been some improbvements, but..." So here it goes:

I have seen two improvements: 1) the paste fucntion using the mouse is improved by a very tiny little bit. 2) the newer files are smaller. I do not consider that enough of an improvement to justify all the annoyances and extra time and effort I must now expend. Not even close.

Quote: AcesAndEights

You used Windows 3.1 to browse the web? You were on the bleeding edge, that's for sure!

I used DOS 4.01 to browse the Web (well, only a little, DOS browsers were very limited). DOS, paradoxically, was simpler than Win3.1. The terminal program did it all.

Quote: AcesAndEights

But it can be configured to be anywhere you want (just ilke in Windows!). I just changed it to be at the bottom and it took me all of 30 seconds, which planted the Applications Menu at the bottom-right just like you like it :)

Of course, I meant bottom-left.

Quote: Nareed

Is there a download I can try out? will it require a partition or can it boot from the CD? (I don't know how to do either, but I guess it should be easy to find out).

Get xubuntu. You download the ISO and burn it to a blank CD; then boot from the CD and you can try it without modifying your hard drive in any way (much like you did years ago when you tried Linux and didn't like it).

Quote: Nareed

3) If I don't find a decent and reliable Windows emulator (I can't partition the disk and go back and forth between systems; it would drive me crazy), then it will all be for naught anyway.

This may be a deal-breaker. Honestly the windows emulation sucks on Linux (it is there via a program called "wine"), and you must be a Linux power user to have any chance at it. I almost always dual-boot when I'm in a situation where I need Windoze for something.

Honestly, if I were you, I would get my hot little hands on a copy of Win 7 and not worry about it for a few years. Shouldn't be too hard. That way, when you next need to upgrade your hardware, just don't give a hoot what comes pre-installed on it; wipe it away with your copy of Win 7.

If work upgrades you forcefully, sorry I can't help you there. But usually they're quite behind on those things - IT at my job hasn't made a peep about Win 8.

Quote: AcesAndEights

This may be a deal-breaker. Honestly the windows emulation sucks on Linux (it is there via a program called "wine"), and you must be a Linux power user to have any chance at it. I almost always dual-boot when I'm in a situation where I need Windoze for something.

Here's the thing. I often play casual games in between browsing and/or working at home. It would be too much trouble to re-bot into windows and then back to Linux, assuming that's how it works. I don't suppose both operating systems can run at the same time.

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Honestly, if I were you, I would get my hot little hands on a copy of Win 7 and not worry about it for a few years.

I like your phrasing :)

Win7 won't run in my current system. I wouldn't mind buying a Win8 PC and upgrading it to 7, but that's only a stopgap solution. Eventually, and yes it may be several years, this won't be sustainable any more. By then I expect MS will have killed the desktop and it won't be an option any longer. So I may as well bite the 20 megaton warhead <w> and begin to get used to Linux.

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If work upgrades you forcefully, sorry I can't help you there. But usually they're quite behind on those things - IT at my job hasn't made a peep about Win 8.

I've been sounding out some people in the systems department. Two of them told me there's no plan to get any Win8 systems thus far, but it seems not to be much of an issue. The tech support guy are terrified about it, naturally. They expect they'll spend their whole working days tutoring users and listening to complaints (like they did when the new office versions were installed).

On the other hand, this is the same department that set my department's email as default for the company's website. We are not responsible for public comments or job applications, which is 101% of what comes through that email. They haven't fixed it, either.

Quote: AcesAndEights

Get xubuntu. You download the ISO and burn it to a blank CD; then boot from the CD and you can try it without modifying your hard drive in any way (much like you did years ago when you tried Linux and didn't like it).

Yeah, the thing is the file download is 790 MB and a CD only holds 700 MB.

So much for being tech savvy. I'm stumped. Do I use a DVD instead, or multiple CDs?

Quote: Nareed

Yeah, the thing is the file download is 790 MB and a CD only holds 700 MB.

So much for being tech savvy. I'm stumped. Do I use a DVD instead, or multiple CDs?

Duh, never mind. I got it <blush>

Quote: Nareed

Quote: AcesAndEights

Get xubuntu. You download the ISO and burn it to a blank CD; then boot from the CD and you can try it without modifying your hard drive in any way (much like you did years ago when you tried Linux and didn't like it).

Yeah, the thing is the file download is 790 MB and a CD only holds 700 MB.

So much for being tech savvy. I'm stumped. Do I use a DVD instead, or multiple CDs?

Ah, that's a new one even for me. These distributions just started getting that big. I think the recommended course of action is to put it on a USB drive, but honestly I don't know exactly how to do that correctly!

Quote: Nareed

Here's the thing. I often play casual games in between browsing and/or working at home. It would be too much trouble to re-bot into windows and then back to Linux, assuming that's how it works. I don't suppose both operating systems can run at the same time.

Actually, they sort of can, using virtualization. There are programs like VirtualBox, VMWare, etc. that let you create a "virtual machine" under your current OS, and then install a new OS into that virtual machine. I actually have never done this (which is kind of nuts considering my job field), but I will be doing it soon to run some blackjack software under Windows. I'll let you know how user friendly it is, probably more than wine.

Quote: rxwine

Never done any serious gaming myself, but that's also a market for power users.

Any market can develop into one for power users, particularly when there are terms such as ubiquitous computing and cloud being thrown around.

We've all read stories about how seven men could re-populate all of Europe after a nuclear war. Yes, seven men produce enough sperm to impregnate all the women in Europe but in a practical sense it will take more of them than that. Its the same way with computing power. People have bought a great many pocket computers but they take them home and synch files with desktops. People fly with computers but don't want to risk certain data in airport waiting rooms. People want data in certain files but stripped of identifying information in other files... yet all "available".

Quote: AcesAndEights

Ah, that's a new one even for me. These distributions just started getting that big. I think the recommended course of action is to put it on a USB drive, but honestly I don't know exactly how to do that correctly!

I found a version sized to run on a CD anyway. Now when I double click it, it runs a burning utility, but then it gives me an error when trying to burn the CD. I'll try extracting the whole thing to a temp directory and burning that onto a CD.

So when does it start to get simple? ;)

Quote: Nareed

I found a version sized to run on a CD anyway. Now when I double click it, it runs a burning utility, but then it gives me an error when trying to burn the CD. I'll try extracting the whole thing to a temp directory and burning that onto a CD.

So when does it start to get simple? ;)

Hey man, that's not Linux being difficult, that's whatever Windows burning software you're using giving you a headache! The Linux burning software is easy :)