Is the PC "Dying"?

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May 8th, 2013 at 2:27:42 PM permalink
Nareed
Member since: Oct 24, 2012
Threads: 346
Posts: 12545
Quote: tupp
I see. So, you haven't even gotten started.


Tupp, thank you very much for your help.

Also big thanks to Aces and Cesspit (do you realize how hard that is to type??) for your input as well. I really appreciate it.

I wouldn't like to see you wearing yourself out with advice, though. rest assured I'll post questions when I have them. The problem, thus far, seems to be my CD/DVD drive at home. And that I ran out of CDs trying... I'll try the laptop next weekend, time permitting, and go on from there.

The other thing to keep in mind is that I'm not eager or even much willing to try out Linux. It's part last resort and part frustration with the turn, if you'll pardon what I'm about to say "mainstream" OSs have taken. So expect about as much grousing against Linux as against Microsoft (or maybe a bit less; Linux ins't trying to get me to adopt a labor-sucking system). Yes, I'm angry beyond words with Microsoft, but I resent the need to turn to Linux. Maybe I'll change my mind, eventually, maybe not.

I've been trying to come up with an analogy, but I really don't think one is needed.
Donald Trump is a one-term LOSER
May 8th, 2013 at 2:46:13 PM permalink
TheCesspit
Member since: Oct 24, 2012
Threads: 23
Posts: 1929
Quote: Nareed
I bet you didn't think those might be in Spanish, too :)


The standard Ubuntu Distribution I think is in English, with a setting inside to change the language. There's a Mexican ubuntu user group, and one of those guys might send you a bootable CD.

The biggest barrier right now is that demo CD of a variety of Linux distro's. Just trying to suggest alternatives rather than buggering around with .ISO's which are a pain in the arse.

Actually, this conversation has enervated me to build my next rig dual boot. And I think that's coming soon.... the old one is creaking.
It is said that your life flashes before your eyes just before you die.... it's called Life
May 8th, 2013 at 3:15:15 PM permalink
Nareed
Member since: Oct 24, 2012
Threads: 346
Posts: 12545
Quote: TheCesspit
The standard Ubuntu Distribution I think is in English, with a setting inside to change the language. There's a Mexican ubuntu user group, and one of those guys might send you a bootable CD.


Spanish is the bane of my existence. Over the past 20 years, more and more things have gotten themselves translated, dubbed or otherwise mutilated into Spanish. I haven't seen The Simpsons in over a year, because the (cable) channel that carries it removed the SAP in English. I've put up with Windows in Spanish pretty much because there is no choice at all. None. You get used to it, yes, but it's a constant anoyance just the same.
Donald Trump is a one-term LOSER
May 8th, 2013 at 6:06:01 PM permalink
rxwine
Member since: Oct 24, 2012
Threads: 188
Posts: 18629
Quote: Nareed
The other thing to keep in mind is that I'm not eager or even much willing to try out Linux.


Once you've become familiar with working with the interface, you'll no longer (I assume) have to worry about a manufacturer saddling you with unwanted "improvements". So, there's that, to look forward to.
You believe in an invisible god, and dismiss people who say they are trans? Really?
May 8th, 2013 at 11:06:46 PM permalink
Nareed
Member since: Oct 24, 2012
Threads: 346
Posts: 12545
Quote: rxwine
Once you've become familiar with working with the interface, you'll no longer (I assume) have to worry about a manufacturer saddling you with unwanted "improvements". So, there's that, to look forward to.


I hope so. Lately I'm too impatient with things that should just work. But I do hope so.
Donald Trump is a one-term LOSER
May 10th, 2013 at 8:31:14 AM permalink
Nareed
Member since: Oct 24, 2012
Threads: 346
Posts: 12545
I've read anough now to be convinced: Windows Blue, the much vaunted update leaked by Microsoft, only doubles down on the wretched Windows 8 concept.

Microsoft is trying to be clever by loudly, in their leaky way, trumpeting two changes: 1) you can boot directly to the desktop and 2) the Start button is coming back!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Here's the problem:

1) What's the use of booting to the desktop when other changes, like moving control pannel to "Modern," force you into the "Modern" interface anyway?

2) The start button is not, nor was it ever, an issue. The issue was the start menu. That is: people want the start menu on the desktop. Not just a button. What Miscrosoft is doing in Blue is adding a start button that unceremoniusly dumps you to the "Modern" interface. That's worse than useless for a serious PC user, and morally fraudulent on Microsoft's part.

At this point I'm very seriously considering a campaign to defend the desktop. Unfortunately I've no idea how to go about it, and my work schedule makes it impossible to engage in it (besides, any spare time I do get I want to apply to my writing). But I'd galdly support, morally and in other ways, any such campaign. So if you come accross one, would you be kind enough to post about it?

It's taken me time to understand the "thinking" behind Win8. Now that I do, I'm horrified by it. Least common denominator doesn't even come close to what's going on.

Robert Tracinski, a political pundit with a philosophical bent, has brought up the idea of "labor-sucking devices." These are machines, usually of a "green" variety, that demand more effort to use and deliver less advantages, all in a trade-off to "reduce the carbon footprint" or some other such perceived "advantage." Overall it's the modern-day version of making sacrifices. The whole idea is irrational, but there is some attempt to justify it.

I see Win 8 as a labor-sucking device as far as PC users go. It takes more effort to do simple things, you can actually do less with Win8 as compared with all previous Windows releases as far back as Win95 at the least. So the sum is less work for more effort.

Here's what I want:

The ability to open several windows, as many as 10 at times, and to be able to keep track of them at a glance. I want two or three launch icons pinned to the taskbar, but not more than that. I want a menu that opens over the present work and which contains additional programs I launch frequently, plus the ability to open on additional menus for other things: more programs I use less often and things like the control pannel, the Windows explorer, the pritner menu, etc, so all that is within easy reach at all times.

What I've described is the Windows 95 through 7 versions of the desktop. But it's also something I cannot ahve with the tablet limitted "modern" interface, nor with the much dimminished Win8 version of a desktop.

And that's why Windows 8 must be destroyed.
Donald Trump is a one-term LOSER
May 10th, 2013 at 11:42:17 AM permalink
tupp
Member since: Oct 24, 2012
Threads: 0
Posts: 11
If it's any consolation, the Linux world already went through this scenario a few years ago with the Gnome 3 fiasco, although there was much less suffering because of Linux's desktop diversity.

Gnome is one of the two major open source desktops. Suddenly, in a new version (Gnome 3), the Gnome folks decided to make major changes in the way everything works. This upset a lot of people, because they had to learn new, roundabout ways to do things that they were already conditioned to do in a more direct manner.

What is uncanny is that KDE (the other major open source desktop) simultaneously tried to get "cute" with many of their own new and roundabout desktop methods. Anyone doing a new install with Gnome or KDE at the time suffered.

More amazingly, during all of this turmoil, Ubuntu (the most popular Linux distro at the time) decided to push its Unity desktop (which many think is geared for touch-screens, just like Metro).

Lots of uproar.

Luckily, the open source world is incredibly resilient and diverse. Forks from previous Gnome versions were quickly created and offered in major distros. KDE soon responded by rolling back to its previous ways. And some people merely installed earlier versions of these desktops.

Those who were using one of the desktops or window managers other than Gnome or KDE were completely unaffected.

The Gnome 3.8 desktop now offers a "Classic mode" which restores some of the earlier features. However, the two "retro" Gnome forks are still actively developed.


Quote: Nareed
The ability to open several windows, as many as 10 at times, and to be able to keep track of them at a glance.

Not only can you do that with most open source OSs, but it is very common (usually default) to have several "virtual desktops" in which you can organize your windows.

So, you can have one desktop that has your work windows open, while another desktop has a game or two, while yet another has a web browser, while another has torrent and ftp clients open, etc.

One can instantly switch between these desktops and the clean focus and layout of the windows in each desktop remains undisturbed -- a huge advantage over trying to navigate among ten windows on a single desktop.


Quote: Nareed
I want two or three launch icons pinned to the taskbar, but not more than that.

Taskbars and docks are common/default in most open source desktops and window managers.


Quote: Nareed
I want a menu that opens over the present work and which contains additional programs I launch frequently, plus the ability to open on additional menus for other things: more programs I use less often and things like the control pannel, the Windows explorer, the pritner menu, etc, so all that is within easy reach at all times.

Floating app menus are prevalent in many open source desktop/window managers, and most of them will overlap over existing windows, although one usually must right-click on a blank part of the desktop for the floating menu to appear. The non-floating version of the main menu can be accessed on most taskbars with button similar to the Windows "Start" button.

Furthermore, one usually can configure the menus to one's desire.
May 11th, 2013 at 3:53:01 PM permalink
rxwine
Member since: Oct 24, 2012
Threads: 188
Posts: 18629
Here you go Nareed,

http://news.cnet.com/8301-10805_3-57584029-75/microsoft-responds-to-extreme-windows-8-criticism/

...based on many comments below the article, people were not appeased.
You believe in an invisible god, and dismiss people who say they are trans? Really?
May 11th, 2013 at 6:43:55 PM permalink
Nareed
Member since: Oct 24, 2012
Threads: 346
Posts: 12545
Quote: rxwine
Here you go Nareed,

http://news.cnet.com/8301-10805_3-57584029-75/microsoft-responds-to-extreme-windows-8-criticism/

...based on many comments below the article, people were not appeased.


I'm amazed that people keep missing the point: Microsoft wants to eliminate the desktop.

That's the real problem. The "Modern" interface just doesn't cut it for much of the work people actually buy a PC to do. What irks me is that getting rid of the desktop will ultimately make a PC into a gigantic, non-portable tablet.

The idea is that Microsoft wants to have the same OS across devices, so you'll buy a Windows tablet, preferably made by Microsoft, as well as a Windows phone for just that reason. Well. I won't buy a Windows tablet because my PC won't be running Windows, either. So what's the use?
Donald Trump is a one-term LOSER
May 11th, 2013 at 7:00:05 PM permalink
Face
Member since: Oct 24, 2012
Threads: 61
Posts: 3941
Meh. PC gaming is way too big IMO to allow the death of the PC. I and about 40,000 others have thousands of dollars each invested into our virtual race teams. Flight combat sims contain their own virtual squadrons with thousands of people going to war. World of Warcraft hosts a few million people if I remember correctly, and then there’s all the console ports.

Sure, some of the simpler games such as The Sims and SimCity might could be done on a tablet. It’s mostly point and click, you can take your time; if the controls were intuitive, I could manage. But once you get into the more intense and time sensitive games like Call of Duty or WoW, you’d start to feel the disadvantage. And trying to connect a stick, rudder and pedals, or an entire motion rig, rumble seat, wheel and pedal set up to a tablet is out of the question.

I’m with you on your pain and likewise wish they’d leave well enough alone. But I don’t see the PC going anywhere in the near future.
Be bold and risk defeat, or be cautious and encourage it.
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