First Principles

January 16th, 2020 at 11:33:27 AM permalink
Evenbob
Member since: Oct 24, 2012
Threads: 146
Posts: 25010
Quote: FrGamble
Bob with all due respect I get frustrated by your inconsistency in thought, your idea that your unique and difficult family experience is a universal example of the faith,


Matthew, I get frustrated that you think
your experience of growing up in a
Catholic family and being spoon fed
your silly religion means that it's true.
I get frustrated that you have not a
single shred of evidence for any of it,
yet act like you do. I get frustrated
that you think billions of glassy eyed
tricked and manipulated followers
is proof of anything except the
biggest con job in history.

Please try and do better.
If you take a risk, you may lose. If you never take a risk, you will always lose.
January 16th, 2020 at 1:50:42 PM permalink
FrGamble
Member since: Oct 24, 2012
Threads: 67
Posts: 7596
You are wrong about my family. You are wrong there is not evidence for God's existence and the truth of the Catholic faith. You are wrong about billions of people just being lemmings.

But you are right that I can do better. I need to realize that you are who you are and only God can change that.
“It is with the smallest brushes that the artist paints the most exquisitely beautiful pictures.” (
January 16th, 2020 at 2:20:26 PM permalink
toomuch
Member since: Dec 30, 2019
Threads: 0
Posts: 22
You guys are too much.

Some people take; some can't. In between are the ones who fall for the "be nice, and be happy'' (do your menial jobs while the world passes you by) baloney from the takers, who set themselves up as all-knowing kings.

The priest makes some good points. There is no real goodness (or then tragedy) in the world. As far as the eye and mind can see, we are all just a bunch of animals.

But, like everything else, you get a better deal by figuring out how to "save" yourself (for all of eternity) on your own. Ie, no middleman - at least not one per se. Isn't this what Jesus did?

Do a bit of everything for a better appreciation of things.
Were there a God, per se, then there wouldn't be any atheists, to begin with.
January 16th, 2020 at 2:53:31 PM permalink
Evenbob
Member since: Oct 24, 2012
Threads: 146
Posts: 25010
Quote: FrGamble
You are wrong about my family.


You said you were raised Catholic.
So that's not true?

Quote:
You are wrong there is not evidence for God's existence


Have yet to see any. Your evidence bar is
far too low. It has to at be at the level
of science, which it is not. If you mention
the Big Bang THEORY again I'll scream
so loud you'll hear it in MD.

Quote:
You are wrong about billions of people just being lemmings.


Our definition of lemming is not the
same.

lemming
A member of a crowd with no originality or voice of his own. One who speaks or repeats only what he has been told. A tool.

Yup, that covers it.

Quote:
you are who you are and only God can change that


Only I can change it, I create my
reality, not some god. So do you,
you create a god and blame it all
on him.
If you take a risk, you may lose. If you never take a risk, you will always lose.
January 16th, 2020 at 3:11:13 PM permalink
FrGamble
Member since: Oct 24, 2012
Threads: 67
Posts: 7596
Quote: Evenbob
You said you were raised Catholic.
So that's not true?


I think you said I was spoon fed a silly religion. You couldn't be more wrong.



Quote:
Have yet to see any. Your evidence bar is
far too low. It has to at be at the level
of science, which it is not. If you mention
the Big Bang THEORY again I'll scream
so loud you'll hear it in MD.


The laws of thermodynamics, the Kalaam Cosmological arguement, the first cause, unmoved mover, something can't come from nothing, the miraculous growth of the Church, miarcles, anthropology, archeology, philosophy, beauty, art, logic, the personal experiences of billions and billions, my own experience, the reality of prayer, the existence of life, consciousness, and conscience. All of this and more together points to the unmistakable conclusion that there is a God. The fact that you just ignore it all and hold unto a blind faith there is no God makes me want to scream.



Quote:
Our definition of lemming is not the
same.

lemming
A member of a crowd with no originality or voice of his own. One who speaks or repeats only what he has been told. A tool.

Yup, that covers it.


Yup, that is my definition too. You should really check yourself if you really want to lump billions of people into that definition. Does your hypocrisy and egoism know no bounds?



Quote:
Only I can change it, I create my
reality, not some god. So do you,
you create a god and blame it all
on him.


No, you don't create reality, but you need to change how you perceive it because it makes no sense.
“It is with the smallest brushes that the artist paints the most exquisitely beautiful pictures.” (
January 16th, 2020 at 7:23:28 PM permalink
Fleastiff
Member since: Oct 27, 2012
Threads: 62
Posts: 7831
Quote: aceofspades
I know not to cause harm to others because I know what pain (emotional and physical) feels like and do not want to cause that to another person. This is biological/chemical.
Do unto others before they do unto you!
January 19th, 2020 at 1:46:25 PM permalink
toomuch
Member since: Dec 30, 2019
Threads: 0
Posts: 22
Quote: FrGamble
The laws of thermodynamics, the Kalam Cosmological argument, the first cause, unmoved mover, something can't come from nothing, the miraculous growth of the Church, miracles, anthropology, archeology, philosophy, beauty, art, logic, the personal experiences of billions and billions, my own experience, the reality of prayer, the existence of life, consciousness, and conscience. All of this and more together points to the unmistakable conclusion that there is a God. The fact that you just ignore it all and hold unto a blind faith there is no God makes me want to scream.
I seem to recall having read that the spiral is the basic shape of things, and, particularly, that a spiral geometrically makes up the ellipse. If we take a line to be the infinite, and, a circle, the finite, then a spiral puts one on the other.

The notion of time extending infinitely is a hard one to swallow when we wonder how we came to the present time from infinitely far back in time. With the simple spiral analogy, and, with the round on the straight, perhaps, time repeats itself to some extent, ie, loses some of its infinity. Then the finite traits, etc, which compose us are continually remixed an infinite number of ways within themselves on various scales. (A delicate balance of matter and space by which the where coincides with the when, and the what, with the why. In this scenario, each spot in time is a time that defines itself as is, ie, is what it's supposed to be at a given time. A way to have the infinite as countable, and, hence, accounted for at least in principle. A "set" of times with numbers all their own much more interesting than t-0, t-1, t-2, etc.)

Perhaps, atheism and theism are merely different sides of the same "coin" in a sensible universe, which can't, itself, know anything for sure ahead of time, but, then "covers all bases".
Were there a God, per se, then there wouldn't be any atheists, to begin with.
January 19th, 2020 at 2:17:27 PM permalink
Evenbob
Member since: Oct 24, 2012
Threads: 146
Posts: 25010
Quote: toomuch


Perhaps atheism, and theism are merely different sides of the same "coin" in a sensible universe, .


The yin cannot exist without
the yang. God cannot exist
without the devil. There always
has to be a pull in the opposite
direction for things to make any
sense. That's why the concept
of heaven being non stop
glorious happiness forever
is so ridiculous.
If you take a risk, you may lose. If you never take a risk, you will always lose.
January 21st, 2020 at 1:59:38 PM permalink
toomuch
Member since: Dec 30, 2019
Threads: 0
Posts: 22
Quote: Evenbob
That's why the concept
of heaven being non-stop
glorious happiness forever
is so ridiculous.
I put this response in my signature line. Sort of fits with Einstein's per-se view of God as heat, hence, with the Devil (and its supporters) as cold, which follows as only a lack of heat, hence, a lack of God (, instead of a Devil per se).

Were there only a God as everything, then, yes, there would be no balance in anything, which, evidently, as you pointed out, can not be the case. Atheists do exist, and, assuming that a God exists, God wasn't inclined not to create also them. So where did old Einstein go wrong? For sure, Einstein wasn't a fan of the very-small scale to nature, in which all of his theories miserably broke down. Makes me then draw the connection that he wasn't a fan of nothingness, either, the smallest of the small, from which, I guess, our universe does arise, albeit as much out of an opposing sense of everythingness. One contains no helpful information, etc, while the other contains everything, but, with nothingness never free to act entirely on its own.

We are born with lots of physical and mental potential and longevity, but with little development; we grow old with little potential, but with lots of development, all of which balances throughout our lives, except at the extremes, where the utility of things becomes skewed against what is lacked. Perhaps, if we make it past infancy, and to very old-age, this last bit, too, is balanced out by our peaking somewhere in the middle with various works of wondrous insight, etc.
Were there a God, per se, then there wouldn't be any atheists, to begin with.
January 21st, 2020 at 4:44:02 PM permalink
FrGamble
Member since: Oct 24, 2012
Threads: 67
Posts: 7596
Quote: Evenbob
The yin cannot exist without
the yang. God cannot exist
without the devil. There always
has to be a pull in the opposite
direction for things to make any
sense. That's why the concept
of heaven being non stop
glorious happiness forever
is so ridiculous.


Correction, the devil cannot exist without God. There is no ying or yang here. The devil is a created spiritual being and God is infinitely greater than any demon or devil. They used their free will, like we use ours to rebel against God but they are not equal to or even remotely close to equal to God. That is why there are atheists as well, not to compare them to demons because they are good people who are confused and some have good reasons for being an atheist. Anyway, we all have free will and can chose to love God or not.

Of course we were made for no stop glorious happiness. Do you think eternal suffering is what we are made for? Why can't you have the good without the bad?
“It is with the smallest brushes that the artist paints the most exquisitely beautiful pictures.” (