First Principles

The world we see is indeed very different. However, if we saw an accident we would see the same thing. Maybe one of us would get the color of the card wrong or if someone wears glasses or not. However, one of us wouldn't see a giraffe if it wasn't there. I think you are exaggerating our ability to change or see reality. What makes the world interesting is not all of us thinking the same thing, but being the unique amazing people we are in the midst of a shared objective reality.
You shouldn't be so simplistic in your understanding of why people believe in God. Many people who have not grown up in religion come to believe in God because He is real and so is the same world both of us live in.

Quote: FrGamble

So is fur the significant difference between an Ape and a Human Being in your view?



So are you comfortable accepting that your statement is wrong?
Are you saying there is no meaning to the words we use or that their definitions are just arbitrary and without significance?
What about universally accepted things that are wrong like murder of the innocent? We purposely use this word murder to seperate the reality of it from manslaughter, or killing in self-defense or in war. It is universally accepted as wrong do you disagree? Or rape, do you disagree that that is wrong? How about someone unjustly stealing your money or food, is that wrong?

I thought I read that this was not going to be a place to debate.

Quote: Mosca

I thought I read that this was not going to be a place to debate.

No. the fur comment was more to emphasize the similarities than focus on the difference.

If you get between the river and the Hippo, you die and the Hippo is not viewed as 'guilty", a murderer can have acted with the same ferocity but in killing or in stealing food he is still reacting to his unique situation irrespective of your desire to impose some over-riding right and wrong.

Quote: Fleastiff

No. the fur comment was more to emphasize the similarities than focus on the difference.

If you get between the river and the Hippo, you die and the Hippo is not viewed as 'guilty", a murderer can have acted with the same ferocity but in killing or in stealing food he is still reacting to his unique situation irrespective of your desire to impose some over-riding right and wrong.

I’m just sayin’. As soon as I read the opening post I knew it was going to be impossible for anyone to avoid turning it into a debate. It was doomed to devolve into the same discussion it always does.

For me, it comes down to, try to be kind to other people. And if you forget sometimes, that’s okay, because there’s another moment right after that, where you get to try again.

ETA, If I knew the answer to any of the questions, what would change? I would still try to live the same way. Try to be nice. Give small comforts. There’s nothing else.

Quote: FrGamble

Many people who have not grown up in religion come to believe in God because He is real and so is the same world both of us live in.

Many BELIEVE he is real, big difference.
You believe he is real, and that's all
you have, belief. I see no god in my
subjective reality, nor can you prove
he exists objectively. You've tried and
tried.

Quote: Evenbob

Many BELIEVE he is real, big difference.
You believe he is real, and that's all
you have, belief. I see no god in my
subjective reality, nor can you prove
he exists objectively. You've tried and
tried.

Would it make God real if EVERYONE believed him to be real?

That sounds like an interesting thought experiment. Go somewhere where every single person believes the God of Abraham is real and completely avoid any person or venue that says anything to the contrary. The adherents should try it sometime.

Quote: Mission146

Would it make God real if EVERYONE believed him to be real?
.

Real in the subjective sense, which is
pretty real in many ways.

Quote: Evenbob

Real in the subjective sense, which is
pretty real in many ways.

Real not only in the subjective sense, anything can be, "Real," to one individual person and not anyone else in the world if that person is simply completely delusional. I meant would it make God truly real in the confirmative sense if you were surrounded by people who never said anything to the contrary?

Think about that kind of upbringing:

Number of people that say God: Everyone you have ever met and ever will meet.

Number of people who say No God: 0

Ergo, I would argue that God becomes absolutely true in that environment, just not physically true. But, nobody in that environment would care about physical proof. God would be and would remain absolutely true for that person's entire life, and when the person finally died, clearly the person wouldn't exist to determine that God was not true after all.

I don't think the number of people believing in something can change if something is true or not. God as a creator is something that even unaided human reason can know. Even when people reject this truth it doesn't change it. Nor does a majority of people believing slavery is okay. Objective truth is bot subjected to our subjective beliefs.

Quote: Mosca

I thought I read that this was not going to be a place to debate.

I'm trying, perhaps unsuccessfully, to simply ask clarifying questions, not so much debate. I don't think people think enough about their first principles.