First Principles
January 29th, 2020 at 6:50:07 PM permalink | |
FrGamble Member since: Oct 24, 2012 Threads: 67 Posts: 7596 | Sounds about right since there is a God. Your problem is that you feel that belief in God is juvenile so you can't see your way past it. I think it is childish to think that it is all about you and to not have something greater than just yourself and your own opinions to guide you. In fact it sounds like a 2 year old I know. “It is with the smallest brushes that the artist paints the most exquisitely beautiful pictures.” ( |
January 29th, 2020 at 10:06:43 PM permalink | |
Evenbob Member since: Oct 24, 2012 Threads: 146 Posts: 25010 |
I have the sound wisdom of great men from the past, and present, to guide me. So you're saying because there is a god in your reality, it's OK to be totally dependent on him, and encourage others to be codependent to the point where they can't even function on their own without their god crutch. Pleasing a codependent God: This is a belief that God’s very nature, whether he is happy or not; can be swayed by personal behavior. For instance, “God is very angry should you sin;” or “God is very happy when you did that good thing for a friend.” The reality that every action is watched and dictated by a divine spy who has the power of annihilation and is ever-watchful at every minute activity would stress anyone out. It is a magnification of trying to please one’s boss at all times whilst having him/her watch over you 24/7. Hence, this belief leads to the insanity of religious codependence as life would be taken over by the fear of “not being good enough”. Isn't this what you preach all the time? We're broken, we're flawed, we're far from perfection. But god loves us, wants us to behave and do his will and all will be fine. It's almost a Xtion mantra that 'we're never good enough'. This kind of thinking keeps people constantly on edge, which is exactly where the Church wants them. If you take a risk, you may lose. If you never take a risk, you will always lose. |
January 30th, 2020 at 6:41:10 AM permalink | |
toomuch Member since: Dec 30, 2019 Threads: 0 Posts: 22 | Well, as someone here already more or less stated, it's great not to have to read any more of this (subjective) drivel. Off to find a more interesting discussion about the philosophies of love, and God. Were there a God, per se, then there wouldn't be any atheists, to begin with. |
January 30th, 2020 at 5:57:07 PM permalink | |
FrGamble Member since: Oct 24, 2012 Threads: 67 Posts: 7596 |
I'm saying there is a God and of course it's okay, in fact it is perfectly reasonable and required to be totally dependent on Him. You are too even though you don't recognize it.
This is a fact, you would have to deny reality to disagree. Do you not think we are far from perfection?
One of the most true and important things you have ever said.
and do His will and you will have to carry your cross. God never promises all will be fine in this world, in fact He promises the opposite.
You need to explain how the idea that "we are never good enough and yet God loves us no matter what" leads people to be constantly on edge. “It is with the smallest brushes that the artist paints the most exquisitely beautiful pictures.” ( |
January 30th, 2020 at 9:12:36 PM permalink | |
Evenbob Member since: Oct 24, 2012 Threads: 146 Posts: 25010 |
You are not dependent on God, there is no God. You are depending on your religion, which is a totally different thing. You are dependent on your organization, just like a career military man is dependent on his organization. You're codependent, you can't function without your organization to prop you up.
It may be a fact in your subliminal reality, it's not a fact in mine. I'm not broken, I'm not flawed. You tell people they are, you make people think they are, because then you can sell them your magic potion.
When you constantly tell someone they are not good enough, that they will never be good enough, yet they are still loved, this creates anxiety. It creates a dependence on the person telling them this. It robs them of their self confidence and sets up a codependent relationship. Which is of course the intent. It gives you control over that person, which is what religion is all about. Control. If you take a risk, you may lose. If you never take a risk, you will always lose. |
January 31st, 2020 at 6:00:39 AM permalink | |
FrGamble Member since: Oct 24, 2012 Threads: 67 Posts: 7596 |
Yes you are.
I asked you to explain why this is and you just repeat your statement word for word? Let me help you. Don't you think acceptance of the fact that you are loved not because you are perfect is freeing. It eliminates the need to think I am only valuable for what I do. You don't have to desperately try to earn love or respect, I ask you what could be more freeing than that? You are loved because of who you are not because you did this or that. You are also loved even if you did this or that. Do you still think this causes anxiety? If so please don't just repeat it but back up what you say with some words.
Again it is the opposite. It creates a dependence of God and God alone. In fact the person telling them this is not the savior he is only a fellow hungry person who knows where the bread is. Don't you see that the Gospel makes us all equal, All have fallen short of the Glory of God, and all of us are loved by God. Christianity frees us from dependence on any person and allows us to trust in and love God.
This is obviously some kind of reflection on the sick experience you have had but if you seriously read the above I hope you know that it is not Christianity, in fact Christianity is the opposite of what you describe. “It is with the smallest brushes that the artist paints the most exquisitely beautiful pictures.” ( |
January 31st, 2020 at 11:08:36 AM permalink | |
Evenbob Member since: Oct 24, 2012 Threads: 146 Posts: 25010 | I'm not broken, I'm not flawed.
Lol, what a poor therapist you'd make. You're such a negative person. All of a sudden I'm glad priests are not allowed to have kids. What an awful parent they'd make. Totally trash a kids self confidence by telling him how broken and flawed he is every day.
Only when it's presented by not telling the person how screwed up he is first. How long do you think any relationship will last if you keep telling the friend/spouse/ kid, look, you're really messed up, you have so many flaws, but I'm going to love you anyway. It breeds immediate resentment. You get away with it because you're literally a father figure to people, they even call you that. You can get away with demeaning and belittling them.
But they see no god standing there, they see you making them dependent on you. Surely you see that. "It robs them of their self confidence and sets up a codependent relationship. Which is of course the intent. It gives you control over that person, which is what religion is all about. Control."
In fact Xtionity is the epitome of what I described. It's totally about control. To the point that in the bad old days they forced people to convert or die. Why do you think they started the demeaning practice of confession. Being forced to tell the priest every embarrassing thought you had that week. This sets up a codependent relationship and gives the Church a huge amount of control. Ever read about Catholics who haven't been to confession in years, and then go, and feel a huge relief afterwards? That's because they were trained at early age to have this codependent relationship and they feel huge guilt when they stay away. I guarantee I would feel loathing and resentment if I was forced to give confession. My business is mine and not some strangers hiding in a booth behind a screen. If you take a risk, you may lose. If you never take a risk, you will always lose. |
January 31st, 2020 at 7:25:09 PM permalink | |
FrGamble Member since: Oct 24, 2012 Threads: 67 Posts: 7596 |
Well your answers below very much are.
You are truly the first person ever to say this to me. I take comfort in the fact that not only are you wrong, but you have no idea what you are talking about! You think telling someone they aren't perfect, but loved unconditionally is the same thing as trashing them?!? Do you think it is bad parenting to say to a child when they mess up that they are still loved. You have also heard me say many times that while sinful we are made for greatness. I am constantly boosting peoples confidence and telling them that they are loved and great in God's eyes and they don't have to worry or be anxious about being perfect. What is wrong with that?
Forever. In fact without your negative tone at the end you basically quoted the universal marriage vows. "In good times and in bad, in sickness and in health, I will love you and honor you all the days of my life." How in your mind can you get things so screwed up? Relationships are built on forgiveness and loving people in particular in their weaknesses and through their struggles.
You couldn't be more wrong. Telling someone you love them even with their imperfections and that you see the amazing person they truly are all the time is the best thing someone could say to you. As above it is what you say when you marry someone and it is what God says to us all.
So you think they mistake the person telling them about God to be God?
More lies and ignorance. “It is with the smallest brushes that the artist paints the most exquisitely beautiful pictures.” ( |
January 31st, 2020 at 9:20:36 PM permalink | |
Evenbob Member since: Oct 24, 2012 Threads: 146 Posts: 25010 |
No I'm not. Somebody here said it to you a couple weeks ago, Mosca or Dalex, maybe. I could find it if you like.
I'll tell you what they aren't built on, telling people they're broken and flawed. That just breeds resentment and contempt. When you talk that way to people you're putting yourself on a pedestal above them, even if you say you're broken and flawed yourself. Unless you were asked, you have overstepped your boundaries
The best way to lose someone in a relationship is to tell them everything that's wrong with them, but you still love them anyway. Who wants to be around somebody that does that. It's a control issue, people who do that are trying to control you.
So you think forced conversion is a lie. This is pope Innocent III in 1201: "One who is drawn to Christianity by violence, through fear and through torture, and receives the sacrament of Baptism in order to avoid loss, he does receive the impress of Christianity, and may be forced to observe the Christian Faith as one who expressed a conditional willingness though, absolutely speaking, he was unwilling." Chazan, Robert, ed., Church, State, and Jew in the Middle Ages, West Orange, NJ:Behrman House, 1980, p. 103 In other words, if someone agreed to be baptized to avoid torture and intimidation, they are still compelled to outwardly observe Christianity even though they were intimidated into conversion. And this is a religion you willingly participate in and defend. Shame on you. I notice you blocked me again rather than answer my question about 'idiot atheists'. Blocking me speaks volumes about who you are. If you take a risk, you may lose. If you never take a risk, you will always lose. |
February 1st, 2020 at 12:23:43 AM permalink | |
petroglyph Member since: Aug 3, 2014 Threads: 25 Posts: 6227 | Do you think a parent should tell their children they are flawed and broken? The last official act of any government is to loot the treasury. GW |