Kayleigh McEnany

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May 24th, 2020 at 4:48:03 PM permalink
SOOPOO
Member since: Feb 19, 2014
Threads: 22
Posts: 4157
Quote: terapined
Yes they do and they all look up to John Adams who defended Captain Preston and the soldiers under him.
The Boston Massacre


Generally agree. If you start with the premise that all accused deserve adequate representation, the of course criminal defense lawyers should have self respect.

As far as Mission's point about the exceedingly rare case when a criminal defense attorney recuses himself mid case, that has nothing to do with the general premise that if you are a criminal defense attorney well over 90% of your clients are, well, CRIMINALS guilty of a crime!

Similarly (let Ace respond if he wishes), my ex was a divorce attorney. She told me that she would have to fight for parental rights for her DIRTBAG clients. And sometimes when both parents were SCUM, she knew there was no good result possible.

How about my job? A few times I had to take care of a guy who I knew poured gasoline on his GF, and lit her ablaze. He had relatively minor injuries that required surgery. He got the same care as any law abiding citizen.
Years ago, we would do lithotripsies under general anesthesia. Every now and then we'd get a bunch of prisoners for a day's worth of cases. One of my partners, if assigned to those cases, asked to switch as he HATED the idea that we had to take care of them no matter how heinous a crime they committed. I just looked at it as a very easy assignment, and would never mind doing those cases.

I think KM does agree with Trump's overall political platform, and thus makes it easier to translate his babble into an understandable political stance. If anyone thinks that Biden doesn't need the same type of person, they haven't listened to him speak in a few years. Or they are not Black.
May 24th, 2020 at 5:00:13 PM permalink
Mission146
Administrator
Member since: Oct 24, 2012
Threads: 23
Posts: 4147
Who cares? If an attorney does not believe that his client is guilty beyond a reasonable doubt, then there is no reason setting about to demonstrate that his client is not guilty beyond a reasonable doubt should result in any loss of self-respect.

If I was going to question self-respect at all, it would be the true ambulance chasers. But, even then, self-respect and $3.79 will get you a cafe latte at Starbucks, and you don’t even need the self-respect. Maybe they achieve self-respect just by virtue of being good at what they do. It certainly wouldn’t be the first time a person has ever had to lie in the course and scope of his or her employment. Hell, in my experience, (though the LCB sites are a great employer and have not done or encouraged illegal activity) you’re doing pretty well if you don’t have to do illegal acts or acts that violate various codes in the scope of your work.
"War is the remedy that our enemies have chosen..let us give them all they want." William T. Sherman
May 24th, 2020 at 6:52:00 PM permalink
SOOPOO
Member since: Feb 19, 2014
Threads: 22
Posts: 4157
Quote: Mission146
Who cares? If an attorney does not believe that his client is guilty beyond a reasonable doubt, then there is no reason setting about to demonstrate that his client is not guilty beyond a reasonable doubt should result in any loss of self-respect.


You are missing the point. The attorney KNOWS his client is guilty. And he still works hard to have a judge or jury still come up with a not guilty verdict. If somehow the defense attorney only got to defend the few truly innocent people that are charged, that would of course be a different story. But that is make believe.
May 24th, 2020 at 6:54:45 PM permalink
rxwine
Member since: Oct 24, 2012
Threads: 188
Posts: 18633
Quote: SOOPOO
Do you think criminal defense lawyers have any self respect?


Sure. You can perform a service of fairness for everyone which is a service to justice for all. As it's not about how awful the person you're defending, so much as everyone should get a fair shot.

What good service would I perform by being a loyal mouthpiece for some looney bin running the country? That's my opinion of Trump.
You believe in an invisible god, and dismiss people who say they are trans? Really?
May 24th, 2020 at 7:04:23 PM permalink
Pacomartin
Member since: Oct 24, 2012
Threads: 1068
Posts: 12569
Quote: kewlj
they lie for a living. Both parties.


Do you have any idea what percentage of good-paying jobs essentially involves lying for a living?

What work is like if you are honest.
May 24th, 2020 at 7:19:49 PM permalink
rxwine
Member since: Oct 24, 2012
Threads: 188
Posts: 18633
I believe there are examples that truth isn't always universally good. Like the example of giving up Anne Frank's family because you answer the gestapo's questions truthfully. But I believe you should normally pursue it as much as possible.
You believe in an invisible god, and dismiss people who say they are trans? Really?
May 24th, 2020 at 7:22:34 PM permalink
rxwine
Member since: Oct 24, 2012
Threads: 188
Posts: 18633
I'm sure there is a line in an old western that's something like -- Let's get this fair trial over with, so we can git to the hangin'
You believe in an invisible god, and dismiss people who say they are trans? Really?
May 24th, 2020 at 8:10:22 PM permalink
Mission146
Administrator
Member since: Oct 24, 2012
Threads: 23
Posts: 4147
Quote: SOOPOO
You are missing the point. The attorney KNOWS his client is guilty. And he still works hard to have a judge or jury still come up with a not guilty verdict. If somehow the defense attorney only got to defend the few truly innocent people that are charged, that would of course be a different story. But that is make believe.


That’s not the legal standard. Knowing something is insufficient, you must be able to prove it beyond a reasonable doubt.
"War is the remedy that our enemies have chosen..let us give them all they want." William T. Sherman
May 25th, 2020 at 6:41:28 AM permalink
SOOPOO
Member since: Feb 19, 2014
Threads: 22
Posts: 4157
Quote: Mission146
That’s not the legal standard. Knowing something is insufficient, you must be able to prove it beyond a reasonable doubt.


I'm not talking about a legal standard. I'm just trying to understand how difficult it must be to have, AS YOUR JOB, to every day meet the scum of the earth, who are guilty of all sorts of crimes. And it is YOUR job to try your hardest to keep them out of jail!
May 25th, 2020 at 7:04:39 AM permalink
Mission146
Administrator
Member since: Oct 24, 2012
Threads: 23
Posts: 4147
Quote: SOOPOO
I'm not talking about a legal standard. I'm just trying to understand how difficult it must be to have, AS YOUR JOB, to every day meet the scum of the earth, who are guilty of all sorts of crimes. And it is YOUR job to try your hardest to keep them out of jail!


Most people who commit crimes, at least the ones I have met, are generally not that bad. Have you ever looked at the percentage of people who are in there for drug possession or dealing something soft like marijuana? I think, "Scum of the Earth," is a little much. Granted, your violent and/or sexual offenders in there are human garbage, but the rest of them really don't concern me very much and shouldn't really have to go to prison if they can afford the ankle bracelet.
"War is the remedy that our enemies have chosen..let us give them all they want." William T. Sherman
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