Kayleigh McEnany

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May 25th, 2020 at 7:25:42 AM permalink
SOOPOO
Member since: Feb 19, 2014
Threads: 22
Posts: 4156
Quote: Mission146
Most people who commit crimes, at least the ones I have met, are generally not that bad. Have you ever looked at the percentage of people who are in there for drug possession or dealing something soft like marijuana? I think, "Scum of the Earth," is a little much. Granted, your violent and/or sexual offenders in there are human garbage, but the rest of them really don't concern me very much and shouldn't really have to go to prison if they can afford the ankle bracelet.


Do you know how hard it is to actually get a jail sentence for just 'dealing something soft like marijuana?' Unless it is like your 80th offense, or you were a kingpin dealing tons of the stuff, you aren't in jail for much time. OK... if you are a defense attorney who by some magic only gets low level drug dealers, those that only sell 'good' drugs in 'safe' amounts, then maybe those are not scum of the earth. I can't wait to see their tax returns since they are the honorable people you purport them to be...
May 25th, 2020 at 7:43:33 AM permalink
Mission146
Administrator
Member since: Oct 24, 2012
Threads: 23
Posts: 4147
Quote: SOOPOO
Do you know how hard it is to actually get a jail sentence for just 'dealing something soft like marijuana?' Unless it is like your 80th offense, or you were a kingpin dealing tons of the stuff, you aren't in jail for much time. OK... if you are a defense attorney who by some magic only gets low level drug dealers, those that only sell 'good' drugs in 'safe' amounts, then maybe those are not scum of the earth. I can't wait to see their tax returns since they are the honorable people you purport them to be...


Well, marijuana, cocaine, heroin...if you're not selling it to kids, who really cares, you know? You'd get all kinds of non-violent offenders just by making the stuff legal, creating places where it could be safer to use and releasing all of the convicts who did not have anything violent or involving children attached to it.

Who cares if someone was a kingpin? There's a chain of distribution and, as with any other commodity, some people are going to be higher on that chain than others. It's how any chain of distribution works.

Why is paying taxes honorable? Why should I care if they pay taxes or not? Anyone who is only in for tax evasion and no other cause should similarly just get house arrest and have to pay some small percentage of any future income until it is paid back or they die, whichever first. Granted, the IRS specifically allows for one to file taxes on illegal activity, but meh. Why would you pay into the system that actively tries to prevent/punish you from doing business, anyway? Seems counterintuitive.

You're a doctor, yes? You're an intelligent guy who had access to the resources (or the natural capacity to work for it) to be successful. It would seem that you're a model of what someone can become with a strong work ethic and a good deal of fundamental intelligence. You chose to use these things to become a doctor and add tremendous value to your community and the world on the whole.

That's awesome, but then it has also apparently conferred upon you the ability to look down on entire categories of people who really aren't that bad, on the whole. You just categorize the general without any concern for specific situations. I've known convicts and I've known business owners...not only are the business owners (not all, but some) generally worse people, but I've actually witnessed them do illegal acts, like, all the time. The owner of the hotel I managed couldn't be within ten miles of a woman without sexually harassing her, but, he pays his taxes and owns a business with money that he basically gained fraudulently....that said he pays his taxes and was never convicted of anything, so great guy in your book?

I figure you have people who get caught, people who don't get caught and then the remaining something like 25% haven't actually ever committed a jail-worthy offense.

You've got people who drive drunk almost as a matter of daily routine, but as long as they are not caught and convicted and pay their taxes...good people?

You've got people who commit adultery, like, actual adultery. Not only does this betray their spouses, but they also run the risk of delivering STD's to them if the person with whom they are cheating has not been tested. But...never convicted of everything and pay their taxes...good people, yeah?

So, that's why I wouldn't lump criminals into the same category and generalize all of them. If your standard is good person or not a good person, almost nobody is a good person. I'm certainly not a good person, even though I'm not absolutely terrible, either. I'd put, "Good person," at maybe 1 in 8 of the population at-large, or so. Criminals, on the whole, are no worse than anyone else.
"War is the remedy that our enemies have chosen..let us give them all they want." William T. Sherman
May 25th, 2020 at 8:35:41 AM permalink
SOOPOO
Member since: Feb 19, 2014
Threads: 22
Posts: 4156
Quote: Mission146
Well, marijuana, cocaine, heroin...if you're not selling it to kids, who really cares, you know? You'd get all kinds of non-violent offenders just by making the stuff legal, creating places where it could be safer to use and releasing all of the convicts who did not have anything violent or involving children attached to it.

Who cares if someone was a kingpin? There's a chain of distribution and, as with any other commodity, some people are going to be higher on that chain than others. It's how any chain of distribution works.

Why is paying taxes honorable? Why should I care if they pay taxes or not? Anyone who is only in for tax evasion and no other cause should similarly just get house arrest and have to pay some small percentage of any future income until it is paid back or they die, whichever first. Granted, the IRS specifically allows for one to file taxes on illegal activity, but meh. Why would you pay into the system that actively tries to prevent/punish you from doing business, anyway? Seems counterintuitive.

You're a doctor, yes? You're an intelligent guy who had access to the resources (or the natural capacity to work for it) to be successful. It would seem that you're a model of what someone can become with a strong work ethic and a good deal of fundamental intelligence. You chose to use these things to become a doctor and add tremendous value to your community and the world on the whole.

That's awesome, but then it has also apparently conferred upon you the ability to look down on entire categories of people who really aren't that bad, on the whole. You just categorize the general without any concern for specific situations. I've known convicts and I've known business owners...not only are the business owners (not all, but some) generally worse people, but I've actually witnessed them do illegal acts, like, all the time. The owner of the hotel I managed couldn't be within ten miles of a woman without sexually harassing her, but, he pays his taxes and owns a business with money that he basically gained fraudulently....that said he pays his taxes and was never convicted of anything, so great guy in your book?

I figure you have people who get caught, people who don't get caught and then the remaining something like 25% haven't actually ever committed a jail-worthy offense.

You've got people who drive drunk almost as a matter of daily routine, but as long as they are not caught and convicted and pay their taxes...good people?

You've got people who commit adultery, like, actual adultery. Not only does this betray their spouses, but they also run the risk of delivering STD's to them if the person with whom they are cheating has not been tested. But...never convicted of everything and pay their taxes...good people, yeah?

So, that's why I wouldn't lump criminals into the same category and generalize all of them. If your standard is good person or not a good person, almost nobody is a good person. I'm certainly not a good person, even though I'm not absolutely terrible, either. I'd put, "Good person," at maybe 1 in 8 of the population at-large, or so. Criminals, on the whole, are no worse than anyone else.


Last response.... Mission... you are a hijacker extraordinaire! And I am your willing accomplice.

Marijuana.... make it legal. Until legal, there are proscribed penalties for distribution. You think the criminals are unaware of this? And should be surprised when apprehended that there will be prosecutors who want them locked up? Are you saying they are that stupid?

"Kingpin" tends to engage in other criminal activity to maintain their power/authority. "Oh, you are going to testify against me, I hope that bodes well for your family..."

Those who avoid paying taxes result in honest citizens needing to pay more in taxes. Not paying taxes IS theft.

I guess, yes, I look down upon people that commit crimes, and repeatedly, or at a severity that requires them to be incarcerated. So you know business owners that are bad people? So what? I'll look down upon them too if their actions are bad enough, even if not illegal.

I feel bad for you if you think only 1 in 8 people are 'good people'. I think the opposite. Like 7 of 8 are good. Not perfect. Just a law abiding person who wants the best for his/her self and family, while not hurting others.

Do you REALLY believe that "Criminals, on the whole, are no worse than anyone else"? REALLY???????????


Anyway, if you want to take this further please make a new thread, as Kayleigh McEnany texted me and was upset about her thread being hijacked.
May 25th, 2020 at 2:24:34 PM permalink
terapined
Member since: Aug 6, 2014
Threads: 73
Posts: 11786
https://www.yahoo.com/news/fox-wallace-shreds-kayleigh-mcenany-163357291.html
Sometimes we live no particular way but our own - Grateful Dead "Eyes of the World"
May 25th, 2020 at 5:53:32 PM permalink
SOOPOO
Member since: Feb 19, 2014
Threads: 22
Posts: 4156
Quote: terapined
https://www.yahoo.com/news/fox-wallace-shreds-kayleigh-mcenany-163357291.html


Not disagreeing with Wallace, but isn't McEnany's stance exactly what her boss would want? Isn't that what an employee should do? I guess if you hate Trump you will hate her too.... And she seems to care as much as, well, her boss does! She is NOT afraid of the press, that I can assure you.
May 25th, 2020 at 6:29:01 PM permalink
aceofspades
Member since: Oct 24, 2012
Threads: 83
Posts: 2019
Quote: SOOPOO
Generally agree. If you start with the premise that all accused deserve adequate representation, the of course criminal defense lawyers should have self respect.

As far as Mission's point about the exceedingly rare case when a criminal defense attorney recuses himself mid case, that has nothing to do with the general premise that if you are a criminal defense attorney well over 90% of your clients are, well, CRIMINALS guilty of a crime!

Similarly (let Ace respond if he wishes), my ex was a divorce attorney. She told me that she would have to fight for parental rights for her DIRTBAG clients. And sometimes when both parents were SCUM, she knew there was no good result possible.

How about my job? A few times I had to take care of a guy who I knew poured gasoline on his GF, and lit her ablaze. He had relatively minor injuries that required surgery. He got the same care as any law abiding citizen.
Years ago, we would do lithotripsies under general anesthesia. Every now and then we'd get a bunch of prisoners for a day's worth of cases. One of my partners, if assigned to those cases, asked to switch as he HATED the idea that we had to take care of them no matter how heinous a crime they committed. I just looked at it as a very easy assignment, and would never mind doing those cases.

I think KM does agree with Trump's overall political platform, and thus makes it easier to translate his babble into an understandable political stance. If anyone thinks that Biden doesn't need the same type of person, they haven't listened to him speak in a few years. Or they are not Black.



Attorneys can file a motion for permissive withdrawal - however, Judges do not always grant it

I know an attorney who, years ago, was owed $37k by her client

She filed a motion for permissive withdrawal and the Judge denied it - he said she had been on the case for 2 years already and they were 2 months away from the start of trial

The Judge told her she would basically have to work for free, keep billing and attempt to secure a Judgment or lien against property for any fees due and owing after trial

Of course, most states require that an attorney go through mandatory (non-binding arbitration (attorney and client can consent that it be binding though)) and then, if it is non-binding, either the attorney or client can file a case de novo and go to Court over the fees -- it is then that the client wises up and counterclaims for legal malpractice, even if none was committed -- this way, the attorney has to decide whether to withdraw their claim for fees or inform their malpractice carrier they are being sued (which, ultimately, will result in the malpractice carrier informing the attorney that their rates are going to go way up and they should just withdraw and take an "L" on this one)

If both sides consent to binding arbitration, any amount the arbitration panel awards (they can award the total amount claimed due and owing by the attorney or they can "adjust" it based upon the client's testimony and evidence when before the panel -- that is when the client usually brings up that they "just filed a grievance" against their attorney)

The above is why I ask for a big retainer up front - I assume it will be the last money I am ever paid on a case
May 25th, 2020 at 8:19:15 PM permalink
DRich
Member since: Oct 24, 2012
Threads: 51
Posts: 4941
Quote: aceofspades


The above is why I ask for a big retainer up front - I assume it will be the last money I am ever paid on a case


That is interesting to me. My divorce attorney asked for a sum up front for the retainer but ended up not putting that much time into the case. After about three months I got my final statement and there were a lot of charges on it that didn't make any sense to me. My assumption was that at the end of the case he just padded the bill to come up to the amount of the retainer so he wouldn't have to refund me any money. Do you think that is likely or do you know attorneys that do that?
At my age a Life In Prison sentence is not much of a detrrent.
May 26th, 2020 at 5:25:32 AM permalink
SOOPOO
Member since: Feb 19, 2014
Threads: 22
Posts: 4156
Quote: DRich
That is interesting to me. My divorce attorney asked for a sum up front for the retainer but ended up not putting that much time into the case. After about three months I got my final statement and there were a lot of charges on it that didn't make any sense to me. My assumption was that at the end of the case he just padded the bill to come up to the amount of the retainer so he wouldn't have to refund me any money. Do you think that is likely or do you know attorneys that do that?


No different from plumbers, car repair guys, doctors.... there will be some unscrupulous ones that charge for more than what was actually done. Ex wife was a divorce lawyer who worked for two different firms. One basically charged a 'flat fee' for most cases, the other charged for every interaction in 15 minute intervals. Was reasonable for a court visit that was a few hours, but, was unreasonable for other things as there was a 15 minute minimum charge for any interaction.

"Read letter from opposing counsel" 15 minutes
Took phone call from client to arrange a meeting date and time. 15 minutes
Spoke with senior partner about the case. 15 minutes.

The above 45 minutes maybe took 20 minutes.

She did say that the clients who paid the 'one fee' would bother her all the time about nonsense, some really just wanting to chat with someone, while those paying a la carte rarely called.
May 26th, 2020 at 10:36:28 AM permalink
Evenbob
Member since: Oct 24, 2012
Threads: 146
Posts: 25010
Quote: DRich
That is interesting to me. My divorce attorney asked for a sum up front for the retainer but ended up not putting that much time into the case. After about three months I got my final statement and there were a lot of charges on it that didn't make any sense to me. My assumption was that at the end of the case he just padded the bill to come up to the amount of the retainer so he wouldn't have to refund me any money. Do you think that is likely or do you know attorneys that do that?


Happened to me once, got a bill
from an attorney that was stupidly
outrageous for the work he had
done. Got him on the phone and
yelled 'I'm not paying this you
f'ing crook'. Uhfazed he said
send me X amount and we're
good. It was less than half what
the bill was. But how many people
just pay it without question.

Ace excluded, deal with lawyers
and you learn most of them are
thieves.
If you take a risk, you may lose. If you never take a risk, you will always lose.
May 26th, 2020 at 11:24:10 AM permalink
ams288
Member since: Apr 21, 2016
Threads: 29
Posts: 12419
Kayleigh just now: "It is a bit peculiar, though, that in his basement right next to his wife, he's not wearing a mask but he's wearing one outdoors. There is a discrepancy there."

These people are SO STUPID.
“A straight man will not go for kids.” - AZDuffman
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