The Debates

September 30th, 2020 at 10:46:40 AM permalink
Mission146
Administrator
Member since: Oct 24, 2012
Threads: 23
Posts: 4147
Quote: Evenbob
Wallace is as left wing as they
come. He should have asked
Biden if he would denounce
BLM/Antifa but he never would
in a hundred years.


ANTIFA is not an organization of any kind. I still don't know why you would even want Biden to denounce BLM because BLM is not categorically violent. Even to the extent that you want to argue that some members of BLM do violent things---Biden has already openly denounced those individuals.

Here's a good answer for Trump, "I denounce White Supremacy in any form."

See, that's a softball. Except, you know and I know that Trump would not say that so clearly because he would lose voters. Instead, you think it should be incumbent upon Biden to categorically denounce BLM...which is not inherently a supremacist group of any kind.
"War is the remedy that our enemies have chosen..let us give them all they want." William T. Sherman
September 30th, 2020 at 10:48:04 AM permalink
Mission146
Administrator
Member since: Oct 24, 2012
Threads: 23
Posts: 4147
Quote: AZDuffman
There is no central KKK organization either since about 1970. What does that matter? ANTIFA is still the SA of the USA and today. The parallels there are flipping scary.


I return to Biden has already categorically denounced all forms of violence, looting and rioting. Not only has he done it, his campaign pays to advertise the fact that he does it.
"War is the remedy that our enemies have chosen..let us give them all they want." William T. Sherman
September 30th, 2020 at 10:53:12 AM permalink
AZDuffman
Member since: Oct 24, 2012
Threads: 135
Posts: 18136
Quote: Mission146
ANTIFA is not an organization of any kind. I still don't know why you would even want Biden to denounce BLM because BLM is not categorically violent. Even to the extent that you want to argue that some members of BLM do violent things---Biden has already openly denounced those individuals.

Here's a good answer for Trump, "I denounce White Supremacy in any form."

See, that's a softball. Except, you know and I know that Trump would not say that so clearly because he would lose voters. Instead, you think it should be incumbent upon Biden to categorically denounce BLM...which is not inherently a supremacist group of any kind.


Uh, you need to look at BLM far more closely. BLM has demonstrated outside people's homes demanding the deed the property over to them. They have rioted and looted. They despise the nuclear family. They have harassed white diners who are trying to have a quiet dinner. They block roads, refusing to let people drive on their way.

BLM is what the Black Panthers used to be. If it was "WLM" it would be called a violent hate group.
The President is a fink.
September 30th, 2020 at 10:57:03 AM permalink
Evenbob
Member since: Oct 24, 2012
Threads: 146
Posts: 25010
Telemundo flash poll after the debate
last night. 66% of Spanish speaking
viewers said Trump won. The media
is in meltdown over this poll, Latino's
love Trump.

If you take a risk, you may lose. If you never take a risk, you will always lose.
September 30th, 2020 at 11:01:05 AM permalink
Mission146
Administrator
Member since: Oct 24, 2012
Threads: 23
Posts: 4147
Quote: AZDuffman
Uh, you need to look at BLM far more closely. BLM has demonstrated outside people's homes demanding the deed the property over to them. They have rioted and looted. They despise the nuclear family. They have harassed white diners who are trying to have a quiet dinner. They block roads, refusing to let people drive on their way.

BLM is what the Black Panthers used to be. If it was "WLM" it would be called a violent hate group.


Some who associate with BLM have rioted and looted. Individuals are responsible for what individuals do, and Biden has already openly denounced individuals who loot, riot or commit acts of violence. He's simply choosing not to call out an individual organization or group as being any more responsible than any other.

Which is fine, if your entire thing isn't sowing division. Looting, rioting and acts of violence are all crimes...so it shouldn't be a difficult thing for a politician to denounce crimes.

As far as all the other stuff is concerned; I obviously oppose all of that to whatever extent it has occurred. Except maybe the restaurant thing, people can say whatever they want to whoever they want in any public-facing business (within the law) unless and until the business operator or owner asks them to leave.
"War is the remedy that our enemies have chosen..let us give them all they want." William T. Sherman
September 30th, 2020 at 11:23:19 AM permalink
AZDuffman
Member since: Oct 24, 2012
Threads: 135
Posts: 18136
Quote: Mission146
Some who associate with BLM have rioted and looted. Individuals are responsible for what individuals do, and Biden has already openly denounced individuals who loot, riot or commit acts of violence. He's simply choosing not to call out an individual organization or group as being any more responsible than any other.


Not "some." Many. Including leadership. BLM is not like a union on strike where a couple guys get out of hand. We are talking large scale riots and looting. Blocking traffic. If he is not calling out a group why does Trump not get the same option? Other than one is not PC and the other is I mean.


Quote:
Which is fine, if your entire thing isn't sowing division. Looting, rioting and acts of violence are all crimes...so it shouldn't be a difficult thing for a politician to denounce crimes.


"Denouncing rioting" is a gutless thing to do. We have a member here who when confronted with BLM violence just said "I denounce violence!" It means little when you say this.

Quote:
As far as all the other stuff is concerned; I obviously oppose all of that to whatever extent it has occurred. Except maybe the restaurant thing, people can say whatever they want to whoever they want in any public-facing business (within the law) unless and until the business operator or owner asks them to leave.


So you are cool with someone walking up to a diner's table, harassing them, and taking their drink?
The President is a fink.
September 30th, 2020 at 11:51:10 AM permalink
Mission146
Administrator
Member since: Oct 24, 2012
Threads: 23
Posts: 4147
Quote: AZDuffman
Not "some." Many. Including leadership. BLM is not like a union on strike where a couple guys get out of hand. We are talking large scale riots and looting. Blocking traffic. If he is not calling out a group why does Trump not get the same option? Other than one is not PC and the other is I mean.


Some, many...semantics. In any event, certainly no reason to condemn the entire organization. "White Supremacy," is a concept, so Trump's just being asked to denounce the concept of White Supremacy, or taken to the farthest point, to denounce White Supremacists.

If a person does not consider himself/herself a White Supremacist, then this denouncement should not be in the least offensive. I must assume that a non-zero number of Trump voters do, and moreover, that Trump knows this and would prefer not to denounce them.

Quote:
"Denouncing rioting" is a gutless thing to do. We have a member here who when confronted with BLM violence just said "I denounce violence!" It means little when you say this.


Maybe it means little, but I have no issues with an individual or organization standing for something if they are not committing acts of violence or breaking any other laws. Organizations, largely, do not break laws...individual people do. Individual people are sometimes aligned with organizations, but that doesn't necessarily make the whole organization bad.

Quote:
So you are cool with someone walking up to a diner's table, harassing them, and taking their drink?


When did I say anything about taking their drink? I said they can say whatever they want to someone until they are asked to leave...I guess I should also add that they should stop talking to the person if the person asks them to, because that's free association.
"War is the remedy that our enemies have chosen..let us give them all they want." William T. Sherman
September 30th, 2020 at 12:05:37 PM permalink
AZDuffman
Member since: Oct 24, 2012
Threads: 135
Posts: 18136
Quote: Mission146
Some, many...semantics. In any event, certainly no reason to condemn the entire organization. "White Supremacy," is a concept, so Trump's just being asked to denounce the concept of White Supremacy, or taken to the farthest point, to denounce White Supremacists.

If a person does not consider himself/herself a White Supremacist, then this denouncement should not be in the least offensive. I must assume that a non-zero number of Trump voters do, and moreover, that Trump knows this and would prefer not to denounce them.


The point is there is no reason to bring it up. We are not seeing a rash of White Supremacist violence and at best 2% of the USA subscribe to the belief. Trump does not project or represent white supremacy. The GOP is not the party that had a white supremacist in the Senate until the 2000s. Asking this is one step from asking if he stopped beating his wife.

Quote:
Maybe it means little, but I have no issues with an individual or organization standing for something if they are not committing acts of violence or breaking any other laws. Organizations, largely, do not break laws...individual people do. Individual people are sometimes aligned with organizations, but that doesn't necessarily make the whole organization bad.


BLM has a history of violence and breaking laws. I am not about to make a roster of what members of BLM did and did not.


Quote:
When did I say anything about taking their drink? I said they can say whatever they want to someone until they are asked to leave...I guess I should also add that they should stop talking to the person if the person asks them to, because that's free association.


Taking their drink and hassling them is what happened. You can call it "free association" but that is the same kind of "free association" of the group of black kids who "asked for $5" when they surrounded Bernie Goetz. The were in the restaurant to hassle and intimidate, not associate. Kind of like when a bunch of junior high kids are picking on a weak student and the teacher comes by and they say, "we wuz just kiddin around!" They were not, and the BLM in that restaurant were not free associating.
The President is a fink.
September 30th, 2020 at 12:07:26 PM permalink
ams288
Member since: Apr 21, 2016
Threads: 29
Posts: 12422
We get it, the guy who worships the Confederate flag doesn’t like BLM.

Let’s stop spamming every thread with this nonsense. We already have a couple of dedicated BLM threads.
“A straight man will not go for kids.” - AZDuffman
September 30th, 2020 at 12:18:06 PM permalink
Tanko
Member since: Aug 15, 2019
Threads: 0
Posts: 1964
"Google searches for ‘move to Canada’ spike after presidential debate"

Same thing happened in 2016.