POTUS ELECTION 2024

Quote: Gandler

I honestly don't like Clinton, he strikes me as manipulative and I think he is guilty of sexual misconduct (he is just more cordial and likable than Trump, which in some ways can be more dangerous), he strikes me as a very manipulative man. I don't care much for his wife either. I think they both have been shady and manipulative.
I like both Bush and Obama because they are down to earth people and have done a lot of good (both during and after presidency, Bush specifically for his work in Africa).

I agree on Bush and Obama. As far as sexual misconduct, as long as it was with consenting adults, then I don't care. I know there are some allegations about President Clinton, but I don't know that anything has been proven. I could be wrong.

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1. That is probably true, I just love to point out their hypocrisy, again if a liberal did even half of what Trump did, well, you know....

Hypocrites on both sides.

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2. This is also probably true, secret fantasy type thing. Other than weddings (and not counting historical walk-throughs), I have not been to church since a teen (I honestly don't remember when I stopped going, I pretty much told my parents that I had enough). And, I don't remember enough about individuals to know their hypocrisy, but it would not surprise me.

I guess the hypocrisy that I saw was mostly just having to do with spousal infidelity. By itself, that wouldn't really concern me all that much, (not that I'm a cheater, because I'm not) because I don't really care what people do in the bedroom as long as they're not going to be preaching hellfire and brimstone for doing the things that...you know, they're actively doing.

Aside from that, some of the church kids were weird and had upbringings that I would consider unfortunate. A few of those kids were molested, of course, not that I knew that at the time. Mainly they were taught just to accept everything that you were told and to never question or inquire about anything. I kind of caught up with a few folks within the last year or two (who also talked to others) and it seems like only maybe 10% of those kids still even attend any kind of church regularly.

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3. I think Trump is a light racist. By this I mean he does not hate various minorities, but he feels uncomfortable about them. I have heard stories from people I trust (long before he was in politics) that when he would visit AC casinos management would make sure all staff on the floor were white. I don't think he is a white supremist, but I think he prefers to be around white people. There is also the housing investigations from decades ago on his father (when Trump worked for him) which came to the conclusion that his developments discriminated against blacks (yes technically his father, not him, but he worked for him)...…

I could see that; I heard the same thing about AC. As far as personal relationships go, I don't know that there's anything necessarily racist about preferring to be around your own color because it's not necessarily for that reason directly. You figure you're probably going to have more in common with them, similar life experiences, etc...I think that's why I tend to be comfortable around just about anybody. My life experiences aren't remarkably different from those of anyone else, except maybe wealthy people.

But, let's say you had a group of ATV enthusiasts, dirt bikes, four-wheelers and such...I'd be uncomfortable (more likely, bored) in the middle of that conversation because I'd have no idea what was being talked about and absolutely nothing to contribute, regardless of their color. People just tend to gravitate towards other people with similar interests and backgrounds, which can have some racial correlation (in some cases), but does not necessarily make someone a racist.

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As for the rest, of him using laws to be a good businessman, I don't agree. His business credit score is 19/100, mostly for failure to pay money, or paying well past due dates. This is not a score that an "excellent businessman" would have.
Again he has foreign loans because that is all that he can get..... He would never be eligible for even a secret level security clearance because of his foreign interests, debt, and legal issues (absurd levels of civil lawsuits, and no, not the average that "most billionaires" experience as people here try to say....)

I wouldn't have said, "Excellent." Even if I would have, there are different aspects to what can be considered, "Success," in business. No question he doesn't have the best history of repayment.

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I don't understand how you can make the argument that he was a great (even good) businessman.... He was born wealthy, and had far more failed business than successful ones.... Even the Trump Taj Mahal, he knew he was going to lose money, he just wanted to build the biggest casino at the time in the U.S. for his ego.... The idea that he is self-made, and just had a "small loan" from his father is simply false.
Anyone can inherent 500 million and a huge business organization and lose lots of money and fail on a lot of projects, there is nothing exceptional about this....

I never used the word, "Great," either. Like I said, my overall opinion of him in all regards that aren't POTUS is slightly favorable. I have a slightly favorable view of him as a businessman, as well. Hell of a salesman and natural promoter. If he came from the sort of money I came from (almost none), he'd probably be one of the better salesmen on a high volume used car lot. That's not meant as an insult, btw.

More businesses do fail than those that succeed, so win/loss rate isn't really a huge thing. In some cases, you only need one winner.

Either way, he keeps trying, so I wouldn't condemn him for trying regardless of the results. I'd tell you what I would do had I inherited that money---sit on my ass and do almost nothing is what I would have done with it. Invest it extremely conservatively and live at some country club on the interest, golf a round or two of 18 every day. Hell, you put a few grand in my pocket with all of my bills paid and I immediately lose almost any and almost all desire to go anywhere or do anything.

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"A 2016 analysis of Trump's business career in The Economist concluded that his performance since 1985 had been "mediocre compared with the stock market and property in New York". A subsequent analysis in The Washington Post similarly noted that Trump's estimated net worth of $100 million in 1978 would have increased to $6 billion by 2016 if he had invested it in a typical retirement fund, and concluded that "Trump is a mix of braggadocio, business failures, and real success."

(Trump has over 1.2 billion in debt, that we know of, much of it to China, German, and Russian banks).

And certainly many people have been shafted along the way, but I go back to how many people have been employed because of him? Even if he has lost overall, at least a good bit of the money lost has benefitted someone else.

Quote: Mission146

I agree on Bush and Obama. As far as sexual misconduct, as long as it was with consenting adults, then I don't care. I know there are some allegations about President Clinton, but I don't know that anything has been proven. I could be wrong.

I am not talking about Lewinsky (though that was irresponsible for the President to have an affair with an intern for a number of reasons).
There are many credible allegations against Clinton of nonconsensual sex.

A great non-partisan book (written by a liberal) is "No One Left to Lie To" by Christopher Hitchens.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/No_One_Left_to_Lie_To

In any case, I am convinced that he is a manipulative person who has self-control issues. He is just more cordial and calming than Trump.

I bring up Bush and Obama because regardless of what you think about their policies, they are both decent down to earth people who could probably have a beer with anyone and be relatable. Also, they both have very boring sex lives (which is probably good for a President).

Quote: Mission146

Hypocrites on both sides.

Yes, but on this issue it is mostly on the right.

Quote: Mission146

I guess the hypocrisy that I saw was mostly just having to do with spousal infidelity. By itself, that wouldn't really concern me all that much, (not that I'm a cheater, because I'm not) because I don't really care what people do in the bedroom as long as they're not going to be preaching hellfire and brimstone for doing the things that...you know, they're actively doing.

Aside from that, some of the church kids were weird and had upbringings that I would consider unfortunate. A few of those kids were molested, of course, not that I knew that at the time. Mainly they were taught just to accept everything that you were told and to never question or inquire about anything. I kind of caught up with a few folks within the last year or two (who also talked to others) and it seems like only maybe 10% of those kids still even attend any kind of church regularly.

Would not shock me. Religious people are some of the biggest hypocrites. From anti-gay preachers having gay affairs, to cheating, to child-abuses cover ups, to everything in-between.... I never once felt that I am missing out on anything by not being involved in a religion in my adult life....

Quote: Mission146

I could see that; I heard the same thing about AC. As far as personal relationships go, I don't know that there's anything necessarily racist about preferring to be around your own color because it's not necessarily for that reason directly. You figure you're probably going to have more in common with them, similar life experiences, etc...I think that's why I tend to be comfortable around just about anybody. My life experiences aren't remarkably different from those of anyone else, except maybe wealthy people.

But, let's say you had a group of ATV enthusiasts, dirt bikes, four-wheelers and such...I'd be uncomfortable (more likely, bored) in the middle of that conversation because I'd have no idea what was being talked about and absolutely nothing to contribute, regardless of their color. People just tend to gravitate towards other people with similar interests and backgrounds, which can have some racial correlation (in some cases), but does not necessarily make someone a racist.

I am not sure I agree with your equating race and various recreational enthusiasts. If you don't want to have black people seen on the floor of your business that at the very least make you a light racist. I think people are giving him too much benefit of the doubt.

Quote: Mission146

I wouldn't have said, "Excellent." Even if I would have, there are different aspects to what can be considered, "Success," in business. No question he doesn't have the best history of repayment.



I never used the word, "Great," either. Like I said, my overall opinion of him in all regards that aren't POTUS is slightly favorable. I have a slightly favorable view of him as a businessman, as well. Hell of a salesman and natural promoter. If he came from the sort of money I came from (almost none), he'd probably be one of the better salesmen on a high volume used car lot. That's not meant as an insult, btw.

More businesses do fail than those that succeed, so win/loss rate isn't really a huge thing. In some cases, you only need one winner.

Either way, he keeps trying, so I wouldn't condemn him for trying regardless of the results. I'd tell you what I would do had I inherited that money---sit on my ass and do almost nothing is what I would have done with it. Invest it extremely conservatively and live at some country club on the interest, golf a round or two of 18 every day. Hell, you put a few grand in my pocket with all of my bills paid and I immediately lose almost any and almost all desire to go anywhere or do anything.



And certainly many people have been shafted along the way, but I go back to how many people have been employed because of him? Even if he has lost overall, at least a good bit of the money lost has benefitted someone else.

Then you would have made more than Trump, if you just shoved away all of the money and did nothing you would have made more.

I have no clue how many people have been employed because of him (many have never been paid or underpaid....)

This is another issue that I don't understand why conservatives defend him so much on. Before he was President not a single Republican would praise Trump's business skills (because there is little to praise)….

I guess if you want to make the argument that he is a natural promotor, maybe, I am not sure that is always a great thing for society (if you are promoting bad ideas or scams, IE Trump University).