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Marjorie Taylor Greene Follies
Poll
 | 1 vote (14.28%) | ||
| | 5 votes (71.42%) | ||
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| | 1 vote (14.28%) |
7 members have voted
| March 12th, 2021 at 9:25:21 AM permalink | |
| ams288 Member since: Apr 21, 2016 Threads: 29 Posts: 12525 |
Nonsense. Donny doesn’t “spend half his day” at the country club. He lives at one. “A straight man will not go for kids.” - AZDuffman |
| March 12th, 2021 at 9:53:16 AM permalink | |
| Gandler Member since: Aug 15, 2019 Threads: 27 Posts: 4256 |
GA is now blue overall as proven by the Presidential and the Senate (both inital and runoffs). Most urban districts are blue. But, there are many large swaths of rural area that are deep red. However, on population its blue.... And, it will continue to get stronger blue as more young people move into the cities like and urban hubs Atlanta and Savannah (as is happening)..... You live in PA, it's literally the exact same thing. A couple major urban areas on the state boundaries that are blue, huge swaths of nothing in the interior that are deep red. Please don't act like PA is massively different than GA..... I don't understand your disdain for GA, when it is so similar to PA (it is just cold and has no beaches)..... You love to mock me for moving to GA, when the aspects of GA that I love have nothing to do with your critiscm (and almost all of your criticism applies to PA, in many cases more so....).... If anything you should support progressive people moving in states that you (wrongly) view as backwards, this demographic migration is what is causing sudden shifts in traditionally red states..... |
| March 13th, 2021 at 7:31:48 AM permalink | |
| Mission146 Administrator Member since: Oct 24, 2012 Threads: 23 Posts: 4147 |
That's not proof of anything. It proves that they went blue one time. I guess Ossoff winning might tend to point towards something, (that is not sufficiently proven yet) but it's a little bit alarming to me that the barely sentient Kelly Loeffler almost beat Warnock. She was like a Furby doll turned human that had only heard the words, "Radical liberal," during its entire existence. Of course, even the most disturbing looking Furby is substantially less creepy than she is. By the way, Obama won in PA twice. He got trounced in Georgia both times. Want to guess why that might be? In the political aspect, my problem tends to be more with extremism. Let's do a comparison of Pennsylvania and Georgia: Total Counties: Pennsylvania: 67 Georgia: 159 Counties to go 80%+ Trump: Pennsylvania: 3 (4.48%) Georgia: 24 (15.1%) Also, don't forget that Pennsylvania was a Union state. You know something? I bet 25-40% of Georgians would sign up, today, to reestablish the Confederacy and try it all again. Let's take a look at the average literacy rate, by state: Pennsylvania: 87.4% (Which is in the bottom half) Georgia: 83.3% (6th Lowest) Haha, 4% more of the Bible-pounders can't even read their own book. Speaking of Religiosity: Pennsylvania: 61% (Absolutely Certain), 21% (Fairly Certain) Georgia: 74% (Absolutely Certain) 14% (Fairly Certain) See that? You literally have more people who believe in God than there are who can actually read The Bible! That's hilarious! "In the Beg...beg...in the begging? Who's begging?" "IT SAYS BEGINNING!" "Oh, beginning. What's that word mean?" Don't even get me started on the accents. I'm probably being too kind to assume that anyone would ask what a word means because that would first require intellectual inquisitiveness. I mean, you guys probably want to stick with loose gun regulations for one reason and one reason only---if they instituted a written test, 25% of the gun owners in the state would be totally screwed. It's not the exact same thing. Keep in mind that I also think Pennsylvania BARELY qualifies as civilization. Georgia is just the worst parts of Pennsyltucky cranked up to eleven...Also, your pizza probably mostly sucks. And...Marjorie Taylor Greene won in Georgia. Game, set and match. I mean, even your average Pennsyltuckian would consider her Looney Tunes. Support If you want to know what I would support, I would support greater autonomy for states pursuant to the Tenth Amendment being interpreted as liberally as possible, which is the precise thing that progressives are against. By the way, what makes you think I'm in the bag for Progressives? I'm a Libertarian. If I had my way, the states would have a greater degree of self-governance and you'd have fifty individual test cases that would enable you to see what policies actually work and accomplish what they are intended to do with minimal side effects. I could only imagine the sort of hellhole that Georgia might become if Liberals WERE NOT moving there, but that's none of my concern. California would end up equally screwed, just for the opposite reason. You also assume that my qualms against Georgia (and the South, in general) are politically charged, which they're not. They're culturally charged. Everything about the Deep South is insufferable...except New Orleans. What's going on with the food down there, anyway? It's either deep-fried, soaked in gravy or deep-fried AND soaked in gravy. You guys must have some great cardiologists down there, otherwise I'd think the average age at death would be something like 33, due exclusively to coronaries. Perhaps after I'm done cramming 1,500 calories of fried foods down my gullet---for lunch---I'll chase it with a gallon and a half of sweet tea. I'm not claiming that Pennsylvania is any paradise and I don't have anything against small towns, in general. Honestly, I think I've pretty much decided that I'm going to move to Vermont once my kids are older. Churches, tight-knit communities, pot lucks...have to keep them in line. Increase conformity, peer pressure through the roof...and they're the ones who call everyone else sheep. The best part are the ones who are overtly opposed to most forms of immigration, "I tell y'all, if theys gon' come ta this country theys need to spake English. Tha's da lawl." Speak English, you say? Sure, you first. "War is the remedy that our enemies have chosen..let us give them all they want." William T. Sherman |
| March 13th, 2021 at 9:21:06 AM permalink | |
| Gandler Member since: Aug 15, 2019 Threads: 27 Posts: 4256 |
Actually twice. In the election and in the runoff election.... And the runoff is in many ways more impressive (because it narrows down to the two strongest candidates from each party.....)
I love President Obama. Maybe one of the best Presidents of all time. I have no clue why he lost GA. Like I said it has slowly (more quickly in recent years) been growing blue. You are talking about 2008, its in the past.
This is the incorrect way to look at it. You have to look at the percentage of the population that supported Trump. In both cases it was pretty much actually 49%, and Biden won by exactly .2 % in both states. By raw numbers PA had many more Trump voters.... Almost 1 million more Trumpers in PA..... https://www.politico.com/2020-election/results/president/
Oh gosh, not this again.... Yes I know GA was a confederate state in the civil war
Now this is a more interesting point. Both literacy rates are bad. NJ is liberal paradise and has a literacy rate below GA, so I am not sure you are making the point you intend to. Literacy rate is a complicated topic. https://worldpopulationreview.com/state-rankings/us-literacy-rates-by-state
Pretty irrelevant point. Most religious people who are literate (and even those who are "highly educated") have never the bible. In fact in most religions, people rarely read the religious texts.... This is in no way exclusive to Christianity, America, or the South..... This is literally everywhere.... Literacy has little to do with it.... (I think Judaism may be an exception to this rule, but that is like a statistically irrelevant portions of the world population, like 0.2% of the world's religious population..... ).
I don't understand this reference, it must be from a movie I have never viewed.
Or more likely people don't pause conversations to ask what a word means unless it is a crucial point being discussed....
So now you want literacy tests for both voting and gun ownership? You know who else agrees with you? (The answer will probably alarm you)....
This is actually 100% accurate (the pizza comment). Also, Italian food in general (especially compared to NY and NJ).
You have a bad view of what qualifies as civilization then. Philadelphia is one of the most important cities in the world, and that is not even counting Pittsburg which is also a crucial economic hub in PA. Also, she won in an obscure district of GA that encompasses a bunch of rural counties that I have never been to, hardly representative of GA. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Georgia%27s_14th_congressional_district I think its pretty sad that she beat a Neurosurgeon who seemed like a good person. Not somebody who I agree with on any policy, but if he won, I would be like "OK he is a Republican who is well educated, self-made, business savvy, and well-rounded, I can understand why people like him". .... However, I cannot understand why people like her, she born into money, and basically uses her inherited wealth to peddle conspiracy theories for attention, how she beat him is inconceivable to me, she has literally zero skills other than spending money for attention (but maybe that is enough for Republicans, I guess Trump showed that)... https://health.usnews.com/doctors/john-cowan-604641
That is just insane. We need central control. The reason the confederacy was so evil was because it was trying to divide the country, which probably had more negative consequences (as far as global power) than slavery (not a defense of slavery, just a reality). I am all about a strong Federal Government, I think it is too weak as it stands even today..... I would love more centralization....
The city famous for a high crime rate, high poverty rate, and in a high risk disaster zone?
I try to mostly eat vegan, and there are many vegan restaurants. And, I have never been a fan of sweet tea (unsweet tea is alright). But, yes obesity and diet are a problem. This will be solved as America moves to more plant based options, but this will not be a short term fix. I think a meat tax would be one positive way to do this, but that is getting off topic. (This will also help with climate change as it will kill off large portions of the beef industry, which is quite possibly the biggest culprit for carbon emissions). Americans generally make poor decisions with health, this is why central regulation is crucial. Also, beef taxes can be used to offset the carbon footprint of the meat industry (both are equally critical issues).
I am not against immigration, I think it is great. I do think people should strive to learn the language of where they move (if you are a tourist it is a different story). |
| March 13th, 2021 at 10:33:11 AM permalink | |
| Mission146 Administrator Member since: Oct 24, 2012 Threads: 23 Posts: 4147 |
I mean, she's rich, white and walks all over people with absolutely no concern whatsoever. She's everything that white Republicans love; she just lacks any crossover appeal. Why do you think the Bible-pounders love Trump so much? He's everything they secretly want to be, and at least psychologically-speaking, what they already are.
He also lost there in 2012, not exactly distant history. I can certainly see why he lost in Georgia. It has something to do with what the pot is sometimes accused of calling the kettle.
Almost one million more Trumpers and almost three million more citizens. My point is just that I'm not yet satisfied that Georgia is a swing state. I'm not saying that you're not; the most recent evidence at least points to the possibility that you are---but that was by voting against the least-popular POTUS (at the time of Election) in modern political history. Pennsylvania, in contrast, has gone mostly blue throughout the last several POTUS elections. Trump won in 2016 against the second most disliked candidate in modern history. Before that, you'd have to go back to the first Bush.
I must have missed the part where I was supposed to be comparing NJ to anything. 4.1% is extremely significant, though, in comparing PA to GA. You're talking about literally 400,000 MORE people in Georgia who literally can't read pursuant to whatever pathetic standards suffice to demonstrate, "Literacy," compared to if they had PA's numbers. Do they give you an option of having picture ballots, as opposed to written ones, down there?
Excellent. They're just going to go ahead and fervently believe in something that they haven't even read the full backstory on, in 'most,' cases. Well, I've made many general accusations when it comes to fervently religious people, but being intelligent was never one of them.
It's not from anything. I made it up to make fun of someone who can barely read trying to read the first sentence of The Bible.
I can't imagine a word being introduced to me that I've never heard and NOT immediately asking what it means.
When did I say voting? Every American citizen has the right to vote, even those who are completely illiterate. I would prefer that stupid people choose not to vote, but nobody has the authority to prevent them from doing what they have the right to do. As far as gun laws are concerned, I don't really have any firm position on gun ownership rights. I was just pointing out that many of Georgia's gun owners probably can't read and would oppose any check that would involve having to do something written for that reason.
That's a shame.
There's an h at the end. When I talk about, "Civilization," I'm just talking about areas in which I am surrounded with reasonably intelligent people that are simultaneously tolerable places to live. Overall, Pennsylvania barely qualifies as civilization. Philadelphia, in the overall sense, is one of the worst places I've ever been. Pittsburgh is more-or-less okay. Pennsyltucky is probably better than Georgia, but not by a lot.
Hardly representative of Georgia? She's literally a Representative of Georgia, at least, that part of it.
She won in Trump country by being a somehow more extreme version of Trump. That wasn't even one of Trump's best districts. Quite frankly, I'm surprised Georgia didn't manage to produce someone even worse.
See, centralization is the entire problem, which is something that I came to realize. The reason why is because there's simply too much riding on who gets elected into Federal-level positions, and the most important one, which is the Presidency. The result of taking away state and local control is that people have to use the Federal Government as a proxy and make their national policy votes, essentially, predicated upon what they want to see done locally and relative to their own lives. In other words they ask, "What's best for me, the people I know and the area that I'm from?" Asking that question and predicating your voting upon the answer makes total sense, of course, but the problem with centralization is that the person is voting for the things that they think are beneficial for themselves, their area and the people that they know, but the policy outcomes are going to be applied to everyone...including areas in which those policies are NOT better for them, or at least for those who don't believe those policies will be better. None of it has anything to do with dividing the country as the country doesn't become any weaker. If nothing else, the country becomes stronger because there would be no reason for anyone to hate the country, the Federal Government, the President, the opposing party or any other Federal representatives. While decisions would still be made that impact the country on the whole, most of these decisions wouldn't really be felt by any locality. The Federal Government would be engaged mostly in those things that they were meant to do---mutual defense, regulation of interstate commerce, regulation of transportation and settling disputes between states.
Yeah, but it's fun and has its own interesting culture. I didn't say I'd live there.
A, "Meat tax?" Are you seriously proposing that you want eating meat to be treated as a vice similar to smoking? We're going to put a vice tax on cheeseburgers? See, this is exactly what I mean. If California wants to have a statewide, "Meat tax," I couldn't find a way to care less because I don't have to live in, visit or otherwise financially support California in any way whatsoever if I don't want to. California is a weird country anyway. Let's ignore for a second that your proposed meat tax is harmful to meat farms and producers in that it will artificially drive up consumer prices which will artificially reduce demand. Even putting that aside, your tax is proposing a Federal Government policy that will financially penalize doing something that has become a staple of American culture (eating a ton of meat) and artificially changes consumer behaviors. You know something? If so much of medicine weren't socialized already, it wouldn't really make a difference (in a Governmental aspect) what people do or how those things impact their health. If someone wants to eat seven pounds of red meat per day and drop over from a massive coronary or stroke at the age of 27---I want you to explain to me why am I supposed to care about that? Moreover, carbon footprint. Again, why do I care? Further, this, "Meat tax," that you propose, I assume, would be paid by the consumer-purchaser of the meat products. In other words, food costs for restaurants that serve meat would go up, which would necessitate menu prices (for items with meat) going up, which would thereby result in fewer people eating at restaurants thus being detrimental to the restaurant industry and therefore resulting in decreased numbers of restaurants and some folks who currently work in restaurants becoming unemployed. Also, Accommodations and Food Service: https://cdn.advocacy.sba.gov/wp-content/uploads/2019/04/23142719/2019-Small-Business-Profiles-US.pdf As of 2019, is one of the few industries in which small businesses make up more than half of the private workforce. In other words, restaurants and hotels are amongst the final bastions of individual business owners being able to, "Make it on their own." You want a tax that makes it harder for them? Hasn't the pandemic been hard enough on restaurants? More than that, it leads to it becoming more likely that people with money become more likely to be the only ones who will be able to afford to eat meat. By the standards of Liberals, this results in those who are economically disadvantaged, which are disproportionately minorities, to be less likely to be able to afford to eat meat---and is therefore a racist policy. Also, these disadvantaged groups may lack the same access to fresh and plant-based whole foods products than those in other areas enjoy, particularly those economically disadvantaged folks in highly urban settings, which therefore make a meat tax a racist policy that disproportionately negatively impacts minorities. So, by liberal standards, this proposal sucks because it is racist.
I wasn't referring to you specifically. "War is the remedy that our enemies have chosen..let us give them all they want." William T. Sherman |
| March 13th, 2021 at 3:13:10 PM permalink | |
| Gandler Member since: Aug 15, 2019 Threads: 27 Posts: 4256 | (I am going to cut out a lot of your responses where we pretty much agree and there is nothing to add).
My comparison to NJ and others was purely that you probably consider them (rightly so in many respects) "progressive northern" states. Actually, California, Texas, New York, and Florida are all worst than GA, and I know that you like all of these states. In fact the GA rate looks like an academic heaven compared to Cali (which is actually the worst State of all, not counting territories). In fact the "South" (using your definition) is closer to the national average that most other regions looking at the map. There are certainly many states that are individually higher, but as a region..... That being said I have actually met illiterate people, and I do not think that it is fair to mock them. The other day I was at a farm owned by an elderly Black Man to look at the storm water system, and he was an older gentleman who grew up in a time where it was simply less acceptable to read (especially when he needs to work). Despite his age of almost 90 he was very sharp and very competent (he was running around climbing into machinery that looked older than me and moving all kinds of stuff around). Anyway the point is, I don't look down on illiterate people, especially when they never read their whole lives and need me to "translate" a form to them, its hard to learn to read after a certain age, so sadly some generations were lost in time.
Yeah well that is religion in a nutshell.
I could be mixing up the post with another conservative. But, I am 99% sure somebody with those views in the election thread made a comment about requiring a basic test before voting. It is well known that racist groups used this method in history to make is challenging for minority groups (black people, and in some cases women) to vote.... I am all for reasonable gun restrictions. I don't think a literacy test is reasonable (and extended background check period, where the FBI is not limited to three days for flagged accounts, yes extending that to 10 days as is in the works is reasonable). Historically advocating literacy tests usually means ulterior motives to restrict the rights of certain groups..... So I am suspect when advocated for anything....
I don't live in that district, nor do the vast majority of GA residents. So no, her popularity in that obscure rural district is only a sign of that district not of me or any urban area....
I am not sure that it can get much worse unless she runs for President. Then again I shouldn't put anything past that district after electing her when there were legitimate candidates who were respectable.
You seem to really hate the South. Without the Federal government slavery would still exist. And, more recently the military was needed to desegregate schools. There needs to be a force higher than the states to keep the states in check or else, well we have seen what happens.....
Yes, meat should be taxed as a vice until it can be phased out. There are three reasons for this (in order of importance in my view): Climate/Environment, Human health/ healthcare system savings, and animal rights. Many vegan advocates get mad at this order thinking that animal rights should be the main priority (and maybe it should, I find factory farms pretty abhorrent). But, as far as climate and environmental preservation that is a more pressing issue for humanity. And, meat (there are some healthy meats, but generally people eat meat in an unhealthy way), causes many health issues (especially large quantities of red meat). I would even be fine with just a beef tax as that is the main culprit for the environment and health. As for being hard on restaurants that argument always comes up when there are health innovations. When a state tries to ban smoking in bars and restaurants, "its going to be the end of the restaurant industry"... When a state wants increased health inspections, "undue burden, its going to be the end of the industry"... It never is..... The pandemic has been hard on many restaurants, its been extremely good for certain segments (restaurants that only or primarily deliver or carryout). And, even before the pandemic the trend has been moving towards delivery and carryout (no argument that this certainly pushed it along). But, all of that aside, I don't think the animal rights argument is worth ignoring either. I think in the coming decades animal rights will be the next big civil rights fight. I have a close friend who is an extreme libertarian, and he is a vegetarian (not a vegan), and last time we met up he brought up that he thinks animal rights will be the next civil rights issue (we did not know that we both shared this view since we last saw each other and it came up awkwardly when trying to find places to eat). Of course he disagrees with me vehemently about taxes and regulation and thinks that the "morality of the general population will wake up and change the market over time", or something, which sounds nice but is never how it happens, government always needs to get the job done. I think plant based option will continue to grow in popularity for all of the above reasons. And, in not too long there will be lab grown meat that removes all of the ethical issues from factory farming (as well as the environmental issues).... |
| March 13th, 2021 at 5:55:45 PM permalink | |
| Mission146 Administrator Member since: Oct 24, 2012 Threads: 23 Posts: 4147 |
You do not know what you think you know. I have also referred to California, Texas and New York as, "Weird countries." If we're going to get into politics, I have more disdain for California than I do for Georgia.
If a person is illiterate, then it's, "Fair," to mock that person's illiteracy because the mocking is true. Just like if you wanted to mock me for being slightly overweight, for being a crazy Libertarian, for having questionable mental health or for being generally lazy and apathetic. I didn't say that people who can't read are incapable of being good at anything.
I'm a Libertarian, not a Conservative. We've been over this. Liberals think I'm Conservative, Conservatives consider me a Liberal...so I guess I must be doing something right. Anyway, no, I do not support voting tests of any kind because voting is a fundamental right even if you don't know who you are voting for and can't even read your ballot.
She'd get trounced. You should hope she runs for President that way any Democrat who happens to be running against her will win almost by default.
I wouldn't see the Federal Government be rendered toothless. We still have a Constitution that provides for certain Constitutionally guaranteed rights for all people, so that could not be subverted by individual states.
Phased out? You think that meat should be, "Phased out?" The market will decide whether or not it should be phased out and preferably without artificial price increases wrought by way of product-specific taxation. 1.) Climate/Environment. -You see, the environment is a highly complex issue for which I can only offer this: I don't care. Even accepting everything the scientists say as incontrovertibly true, I still don't care. 2.) Human Health/Healthcare System Savings -When it comes to human health, I don't care. As far as healthcare system savings are concerned, what would really save money is to get the Federal Government completely out of healthcare. Leave any form of socialized or subsidized medicine up to the states, and if you do that, it's no longer the Federal Government's problem. 3.) Animal rights. -Barely care. Happy with my place atop the food chain, though. I was a vegetarian myself for some time, but then I decided, "Ah, screw it." What difference does it really make in the end? None. We die anyway. I don't think there's anything after this, so I don't care. Would you also abolish car ownership and private driving? Animal rights aside, you should want to do so for the same underlying reasons if they are top priority. Vegan advocates...hahaha. Vegan advocates. I advocate that they can be vegan if they want to be and I'll become a carnivore if I damn well feel like it. Do they really get mad at you for your priority order even though you're advocating for the same outcome that they are? I guess I shouldn't be surprised. It's not really enough to believe the same thing other far left folks do, you have to believe it in the exact same way. Who cares if it causes health issues or not? Spoiler alert: Death is inevitable. Smoking should never have been banned in restaurants and bars because going to those locations is optional. More than that, being a non-smoking restaurant (were smoking restaurants permitted) would differentiate you for the non-smokers and be a useful marketing tool. Banning smoking in bars (for those states/localities to have done so) is profoundly ridiculous. If there's sufficient demand for a non-smoking bar, then someone would eventually open a non-smoking bar. Also, in one County that I lived near both before and after the smoking ban in bars, many bars did close. Fortunately for them, smoking is allowed in the state VLT areas provided that they are in a separate room from the rest of the bar. Funny thing is that the places that have VLT's and are not a bar can just have smoking...so the bars are actually at a disadvantage compared to them. Anyway, that Downtown area had eleven dedicated bars prior to that going into effect and I think the current number of operating bars is maybe three. It's similar throughout other places in that County. Some of the previous bar locations became something else whilst many of them closed and no business has occupied those physical locations since. Some of the closed bars still have the signage. No, the entire restaurant industry would not come to an end. I never claimed that it would. I'm saying that more than zero restaurants would ultimately close as a result of such a tax---mostly restaurants that rely heavily on promoting red meat products, such as steakhouses. I found Mexican restaurants beneficial when I did the vegetarian thing, as long as he's not particular about the fact that meat may have touched the surface upon which his food is being cooked or prepared. Anyway, I'll get myself something from Wendy's in your honor tomorrow. It'd usually be a Dave's Double combo, but I think I'll try to take down Dave's Triple and almost certainly regret it. You also failed to address my position that such a tax would be racist, which it is, according to (some) Liberals' definition of what constitutes racism. "War is the remedy that our enemies have chosen..let us give them all they want." William T. Sherman |
| March 13th, 2021 at 7:35:10 PM permalink | |
| Gandler Member since: Aug 15, 2019 Threads: 27 Posts: 4256 |
I don't think its right to mock people for anything other than intentional beliefs or actions that are absurd. Even being libertarian, you have solid reasons to believe what you do, there is no reason to mock, just to debate ideas. Plus mocking people is generally never effective at winning them over or changing behavior.
Fair enough, it probably was not you, I apologize. When you said literacy tests for guns it just lumped in the same category in my mind.
Yes. I think the meat industry, most critically the beef industry (which is the priority) should be phased out in its current form. I think factor farming is terrible for the environment, spreads diseases, and is immoral. Perhaps I should say factory farming specifically. Once all meat becomes lab grown I would have no issue with it (besides the health risks of too much red meat), but it would not be a critical environmental or moral issue. But, you are not going to succeed in offending me by bragging about eating hamburgers. I am not strictly vegan (in an ideal world I would like to be, but for my life its not a practical reality). I actually ate a Wendy's today for lunch, and I know I disparage fast food quite a bit. But, I like their chicken sandwiches (and I had a random desire to try their new one). I prefer chicken over beef in terms of taste anyway if I eat meat, health and moral issues completely aside. Chick Filet and Wendy's have the best chicken sandwiches of fast food places. But, predicting the end of factory farming by the end of the century is not uncommon. And, with the advances in lab grown meat, it would not shock me if it occurs far sooner. Veganism is growing exceedingly fast, 600% in the last three years, and continues to rise (and that is not counting vegetarians which make the growth far larger). And, the number that would be one if convenient and realistic (which probably includes myself) is even higher. If I recall correctly you like John Stossel, not too long ago (year maybe) he did a segment on Ag-gag laws which are pushed by factory farms to prohibit the filming of farms (in some cases even from public right of ways), this is a desperate move in recent years to slow the proliferation of the conditions on such farms. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-QXwadESQ3Y Whenever a specific industry that makes a simple commodity does not want to be filmed from public that should be alarming. As for the racism point. I simply don't agree. I think Bernie Sanders (that could be wrong, but somebody like that) said Philly's soda tax was racist when campaigning there because it impacted minority consumers the most, you can't just call a tax racist because a demographic in a city happens to be lower income and it will effect them more. By that logic bridge tolls, parking tickets, and tobacco taxes are also racist. If you are speaking of food deserts (places, generally low income, with no grocery stores within whatever the radius is where people often end up buying food from convenience stores and dollar stores), that is a larger issue. But, I also realize that it is not something that would happen overnight. Its going to be a slow phase out, like smoking bans over the last forty years. For example Beef has been illegal in India (second largest country in the world) -basically it varies by province, but in most of India- since probably its independence from England. And, they survive. In most of the Islamic world all pork and pork related products are illegal and they survive. Even in the U.S. we have bans on certain types of animals for food (dogs, cats, horses). China is the one exception in the world where just about every type of meat is legal, and we see the results (most of the major epidemics and pandemics in modern history are because of China's meat markets). Their wet markets are particularly dangerous. |
| March 14th, 2021 at 6:50:08 AM permalink | |
| Mission146 Administrator Member since: Oct 24, 2012 Threads: 23 Posts: 4147 |
No worries.
Your moral issues are your moral issues. If you don't like legislated morality when the Christians try to do it, then it's inconsistent to be in favor of legislated morality any other time. With that said, you could put additional regulations on factory farming specifically and I would have to look at those on an individual basis to see if I'd be in favor. Granted, there would be increased costs that would come along with those regulations that would inevitably be passed on to the consumer, but I prefer that as compared to something like a direct tax on meat products. It would at least give the factory farms the opportunity to implement the necessary changes in as affordable a way as possible. I was just giving you crap about getting Wendy's, so no need to ever take me seriously. Chick-Fil-A has the best chicken sandwich, hands down, in my opinion. As far as fast food burgers are concerned, I most like Wendy's when it comes to what's available around me, with Sonic closely in second. As I understand it, there's a lot more variance in the quality from one Sonic to another whereas Wendy's is generally regarded as more consistent across different locations. Well, when you talk about the spread of vegetarianism/veganism and the advances being made in factory grown meat, you're talking about things that the food market is doing freely and of its own accord...so that's obviously perfectly fine with me. If red meat and factory farming come to a natural end by those mechanisms, then that's perfectly fine. I'll be long since dead by the end of the century anyway. As far as convenience of vegetarian and vegan fare is concerned, that's also something that the market will decide. Factory farms would hardly be the only locations not to want their practices filmed, but I was aware of that, yes. That's what I'm saying about the tax, not so much that it would be your opinion specifically, but that a lot of people on the far left consider anything that disproportionately impacts poor people to be racist legislation. I don't agree with the, 'logic,' either, but that's what the logic is with some of them. That said, I think you could make an argument for tolls if the tolls are deliberately put in places that would disproportionately impact minority communities, but you would have to demonstrate intent. In general, the only tax that I could get behind that could be argued to disproportionately impact economically disadvantaged people would be a Universal Sales Tax, but I could only get behind that if you eliminated the Federal Income Tax completely as well as a few other things. More than that, the legislation would have to have a pretty broad interpretation of what constitutes a, 'Sale,' which is to say that I think stocks/bonds and things of that nature would all count as sales. That would also stabilize the markets as there would be a greater emphasis on long-term investments over short-term trading. When you talk about those other countries, I think those are all due to religious considerations...which is fine for them...but in the U.S.A., I don't think religion should inform anything legislatively. I also don't think that you should legislate morality to any degree other than that which is necessary to protect peoples' rights. I believe it's something like 5-10% of people are either vegetarian/vegan, so to draft a law that would negatively impact those who aren't due to their moral standards is, in my opinion, completely ridiculous. Personally, I think vegans often hurt their own cause by promoting it with extreme language and extreme ideas. We have bans on horse meat in some places in the United States, but so far, any such bans are left up to the individual states. I think it would be an absurd overreach for the Federal Government to rule on this in any way whatsoever as it has nothing to do with the intended purpose of the Federal Government, therefore, Tenth Amendment. It should also be noted that we often export horses to the European Union as well as Japan for the purpose of being used for food, so in most cases, we just consider it to be taboo to eat horse meat. I'd eat it if I thought it tasted good, but as far as I know, I've never had it. It was only in 2018 that the Dog and Cat Meat Prohibition Act was signed into law by President Trump as a provision of the Farm Bill, which in my opinion, should not have been done. Prior to, eating dogs and cats was taboo, but legal in forty-some states...I forget the exact number. Either way, that's a cultural thing for some people, I suppose, and while I wouldn't do it...what other people want to eat shouldn't be up to me or the Federal Government. It shouldn't even really be up to the states, but I have less of a problem with a state prohibition than I do with a Federal one. I mean, we have a feral cat problem anyway...so if someone thinks it's a good idea to kill one (in a manner otherwise in accordance with relevant local laws) why do I care? I don't even know that eating cat and dog meat is automatically unsafe as some sort of hard rule. If I had to assume anything, my assumption would be that it just depends on how they are raised and how they are prepared, which is the case with most other animals. I tried to figure this out, but no matter how I phrase it, Google thinks I want to know whether or not it's safe for humans to eat cat food. "War is the remedy that our enemies have chosen..let us give them all they want." William T. Sherman |
| March 14th, 2021 at 7:02:20 PM permalink | |
| Gandler Member since: Aug 15, 2019 Threads: 27 Posts: 4256 |
I don't agree. I have never been against legislated morality. As long as it is secular. All laws (basically) are legislated morality whether it be harming somebody or violating a contract, or engaging in behavior that society deems not right. I mean basically any kid of law at any level is a form of legislated morality because it is a government telling people how to act (or not act) and what will happen if they do not.
Its close. I think Wendy's has a slight edge. But, I can enjoy both.
Well this will almost certainly happen its only a question of timeframe and how involved the government gets in prodding it along.
I agree, and in the last few years vegan options are greatly expanding. Its a growing market.
Yes, but that is pretty unheard of. You cannot even be arrested for filming secret government facilities from a public right of way. Why is it okay for Factory Farms in some states to be able to bring charges (or in some cases cause arrest) for people filming their facilities from public? You don't find this alarming or at the very least wrong as a libertarian?
I don't agree with your last point. Veganism is growing way faster than even I would have ever predicted even three years ago. When you factor in vegetarianism and other trends that avoid meat the growth is insane. I don't agree with all of the tactics, but something is working. I do agree some are pretty over the top. But, in their defense if you view animal slaughter as murder, you would feel justified in extreme measures.
I think those bans are more to do with America's view of what animals they like (specifically view as pets or companions) than what is healthy. If it was 100% health based beef should be banned an dog and cat legalized. But, it brings up the moral question of why it is right to eat pigs and not dogs, as pigs are a mammal that are actually more intelligent and trainable than dogs? |