Is Math Racist?

Here is a prediction for you

Opportunist educators will take advantage of the way nutty ones have introduced doubt like this. After all, that some ethnically identifiable groups continue to fall behind in math is going to be really more and more unacceptable going forward. So we will indeed have "The New Math" yet again. These lucky educators who get the nod, more moderate than this last lady no doubt, will come up with textbooks and programs to sell that will make them quite wealthy. What on earth will it be? Take note I have already seen attempts to use Rap music, Bill Nye the Science Guy has done that.

I will never forget the New Math I was subjected to, and it was the same thing. It's clear now that it was insincere, no mathematician could honestly believe that 'set math' would be the key to kids learning math more easily. Set math! Hilarious! Talk about having to actually unlearn something, this was a case of that. Yet textbooks by the mega-ton were sold. They cried through the shame of it all the way to the bank, of course.

The only thing that any of this demonstrates is that some people can become so married to an ideology that the ideology is everything that can exist.

The ideology becomes so encompassing that all things in the world must be made to relate directly back to the ideology itself: Either in a way that supports and favors the ideology or in a way that is opposed to it.

Even if there's not even a tangential relationship between the two things, no logical connection whatsoever, just create one---even if it is on its face absurd.

Deride any possible alternative to this way of thinking ahead of time, that way, your supporters won't have to deal with the fact that someone may have the audacity to point out that what you, and they, are saying is utterly ridiculous and has no connection to anything.

So, basically, it's a religion without a God. Much like many fervently religious people think that everything has to relate back to God in some way, you also have whatever this is.

Quote: Mission146

I can do reasonable long division in my head and learned basic math by way of, "Base ten," which is a method that I like for teaching math.

Wizard has even commented that I'm one of the more adept people that's he's seen when it comes to doing math mentally and I tend to think it should be just as easy for anyone else as it is for me, provided they practice. There are all kinds of fun things that math can do for you.

One of my favorites is to be able to look at the fuel gauge, determine how many gallons of gas I would need to, "Top off," or at least fill the bar...have a Fuel Perks discount on gas, subtract that from the price per gallon, multiply by the number of gallons needed, make other purchases and then ask for an amount in gas that results in the total being a whole dollar amount whilst still being enough to get the bar on the gauge to be completely full without going over and having to go in for change.

All mentally, of course. That's fun! How can anybody not think that's fun?

The thing on mental shortcuts is you need to know how to do it the right way first. Many, many years ago I learned to shortcut a tip by dividing by 10 then adding half again or doubling if you are doing 20% not 15%. I would do this for many things, like 7% sales tax. This drove my dad insane because he never got of figured it. He would be doing long multiplication meanwhile my brother or me had it figured in seconds. But we could do this because we understood the right way then figured the shortcut.

Same as how before you knew the shortcut you wondered how the car salesman was telling you the payment in seconds.

I do honestly think so much of the USA is so math challenged it lets those that aren't do and say anything. I remember hearing about some politician I forget when and where being upset that the person asked why on earth they needed X dollars per student. Pol got mad and asked what kind of right-wing stuff the person was reading but they just said they did the math.

Knowing that ask the covid porkulus where the other $3900 per person is going.

(Quotes partially clipped, relevance)

Quote: AZDuffman

The thing on mental shortcuts is you need to know how to do it the right way first. Many, many years ago I learned to shortcut a tip by dividing by 10 then adding half again or doubling if you are doing 20% not 15%. I would do this for many things, like 7% sales tax. This drove my dad insane because he never got of figured it. He would be doing long multiplication meanwhile my brother or me had it figured in seconds. But we could do this because we understood the right way then figured the shortcut.

That's true that you have to be able to do it the right way. My way for figuring out tax is just multiplying the total amount by the tax rate straight up and moving my decimal points accordingly. Let's say I needed to figure 7% tax on $34.15

3000 * 7 = 21000

400 * 7 = 2800

10 * 7 = 70

5 * 7 = 35

21000+2800+70+35 = 23,905 tax is $2.39.

Another thing that I might do, depending on what sort of mood I'm in, is to go ahead and move my decimal points first thing. Therefore, I might look at it as .3415 * 7 and do the same process as above after that. Actually, I'd look at the last two numbers and just know that those * 7 round up to a penny, so I'd likely just do .34 * 7 and then add a penny to the result.

Quote:

Knowing that ask the covid porkulus where the other $3900 per person is going.

Not to UBI. I'm still reading this stupid thing little by little. It would actually be hilarious if it wasn't money that could be going directly to people. Why are non-public schools getting any money for anything?

Quote: Mission146

Why are non-public schools getting any money for anything?

Because the money is supposed to be about educating students not going to public schools.

Quote: AZDuffman

Because the money is supposed to be about educating students not going to public schools.

Well, they are supposedly Covid-19 relief funds. What does money going to private schools have to do with Covid-19? Who cares if a private school fails as a business, or better put, who cares if a private school fails anymore than one should care about any other business?

Apparently, this funding is related to non-public schools that enroll low-income students, but who the hell cares? Are they forced to enroll low-income students? If the students are low-income, then why are they not in public school?

Are any of these non-public schools affiliated with a church? They should not be entitled to any relief whatsoever under any circumstances---separation of church and state. Of course, religious schools should also be exempt from all state and federal educational requirements, which would likely result in most of them being poorly educated, which is perfectly fine with me.

In any case, non-public schools certainly shouldn't be getting any tax money and should have to rely on their own fundraising as well as their own enrollment fees. The best thing that could possibly happen is that Covid-19 would cause some of the religiously-affiliated ones to go belly-up, why the hell would we use tax dollars to help them?

WTF is new Math
How can Math be new
Its ancient and does not change
It is what it is
If you can add, subtract and divide
What more do you need to get by in life

Quote: Mission146

Well, they are supposedly Covid-19 relief funds. What does money going to private schools have to do with Covid-19? Who cares if a private school fails as a business, or better put, who cares if a private school fails anymore than one should care about any other business?

Apparently, this funding is related to non-public schools that enroll low-income students, but who the hell cares? Are they forced to enroll low-income students? If the students are low-income, then why are they not in public school?

It is about school choice. Why should low income students be sentenced to failing public schools? Why should the money go to a public monopoly? Public schools are not getting the job done.

Quote: AZDuffman

It is about school choice. Why should low income students be sentenced to failing public schools? Why should the money go to a public monopoly? Public schools are not getting the job done.

The non-public schools can certainly engage in their own tuition, enrollment and housing assistance for low-income students if they want to do that, but there shouldn't be any taxpayer money involved in that process.

If the private schools look better in terms of metrics such as SAT scores, it's only because a greater percentage of the students are not academically disadvantaged, so any comparison to public schools (which literally have to take everyone) are not exactly apples for apples.

Public schools are also not a monopoly because they are not a for-profit enterprise. As far as Federal money going to public schools, I don't think any Federal money should go to any schools whatsoever, so that's a moot point anyway.

I couldn't take more than about 30 seconds of that video. So, let's go to the question posted to me at WoV.

Quote: odiousgambit

I know you don't want to make any comments about political stuff, but I'd really like to see if you can address this topic in a way in which you are comfortable.

Lately, 'educators' of a type, some of whom are in a position to have effect, have decided that the way math has been taught is racist. "Bill and Melinda Gates Foundation is bankrolling a group of activists who believe math is racist" is one of the claims that comes up if you google it, for example. Now I know you are unlikely to comment directly on that. However, I wonder if you'd answer a less charged question about it, so this is what I have come up with:

A persistent problem is that some minority students, Black and Hispanic in particular, fall markedly behind White and Asian students in learning math. Do you think it possible the math is taught in such a way that these students have less of a chance, that there might be a way to teach it that is neutral towards ethnicity, that just isn't being done?

In 1989/1990 I went back to school to get a teaching credential for high school math. One of the professors mentioned how in California there were laws that textbooks for public schools had to be balanced in terms of representing the different races and genders. This was not easy for math books. You may recall how they would have callout boxes with information about famous mathematicians.

Call me racist if you wish, but it was and is a challenge for the bookmakers to find any famous mathematicians who were not white males. They had to resort to names like Benjamin Banneker.

Onto the question at hand -- "Do you think it possible the math is taught in such a way that these students have less of a chance, that there might be a way to teach it that is neutral towards ethnicity, that just isn't being done?"

My answer is a firm NO. I could talk at length about good and bad ways to teach math, but the various methods cut equally by race. I think if black and brown students aren't doing well at math maybe they should look in the mirror before blaming the white man. Do they study as hard as white and Asian students? Are they as respectful of the teacher? Do they have similar levels of discipline problems?

Somebody might make the point that maybe their schools in general are not as good. That would be a fair point. When I'm in charge I'll address that problem by making private school vouchers available to all. If I can't achieve that, I'll at least push magnet schools, to add more competition between public schools, as we do here in Las Vegas. This way, the best students, regardless of race, can bubble up with the best schools.