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Hydrogen Powered Cars available in California
| April 8th, 2021 at 4:29:49 AM permalink | |
| Pacomartin Member since: Oct 24, 2012 Threads: 1068 Posts: 12569 |
A "mild hybrid" automobile costs $2K to $4K more than the regular internal combustion engine, does not involve plugging into the grid, and results in fantastic gasoline mileage. The widespread adoption of "mild hybrids" would probably clear up pollution considerably without the need for a massive increase in power generation. 2021 Toyota Corolla Hybrid 52 MPG 2021 Toyota Camry Hybrid LE 52 MPG 2021 Toyota Prius 52 MPG 2021 Toyota Avalon Hybrid 43 MPG 2021 Toyota RAV4 Hybrid AWD 40 MPG 2021 Toyota Venza AWD 39 MPG 2021 Toyota Highlander Hybrid 36 MPG 2021 Toyota Sienna Hybrid 2WD 36 MPG Sales first 90 days in 2021 7,051 Prius hybrid plus 6,999 plug ins 7,301 Corolla hybrids 10,264 Camry hybrids 2,088 Avalon hybrids 29,471 RAV4 hybrids plus 2,792 plug ins 13,623 Venza hybrids 18,816 Highlander hybrids 26,044 Sienna hybrids |
| April 8th, 2021 at 5:34:16 AM permalink | |
| SOOPOO Member since: Feb 19, 2014 Threads: 22 Posts: 4169 |
This is a great post. But for every power plant that needs to be built there will be XXX,XXX individual power plants (gas cars) no longer in the streets. Big power plants are way more efficient of course than my Hyundai Sonata. So IF enough power plants are built to meet demand, it is a win for ‘greenies’. However, just imagine a ‘greenie’ coming to a town board saying they need to build a power plant in your neighborhood as part of the Green New Deal! I kinda sorta wanna buy an electric car for my next vehicle, but am being outvoted by wife and her daughters. Yes.... that’s a long story! |
| April 8th, 2021 at 7:09:57 AM permalink | |
| kenarman Member since: Oct 24, 2012 Threads: 14 Posts: 4492 |
Toyota has plug-in hybrids. They have an electric motor on each axle and run off the battery 100% of the time. They also have a gas motor that kicks in and keeps the battery charged if your trip is to long or you haven't had a chance to plug-in. I would think this would satisfy the California requirements. I would consider a model like this in the Canadian boonies where I live. 4 wheel drive and no range problems. "but if you make yourselves sheep, the wolves will eat you." Benjamin Franklin |
| April 8th, 2021 at 8:19:39 AM permalink | |
| Pacomartin Member since: Oct 24, 2012 Threads: 1068 Posts: 12569 |
They have two models of plug-ins, but they don't sell very many. Last quarter 25.8% of the Rav4 were "mild hybrids" and 2.4% of the RAV4 were plug-in hybrids. The plug in model is $10k more expensive than the mild hybrid. The Prius's sold were 7051 "mild hybrids" and 6999 "plug-in hybrids" while there were 7301 "mild hybrid" Corollas sold. The "mild hybrid" Prius has about twice as much cargo space without folding the seats down as the Corolla, but it costs about $1K more. On the other hand Toyota is the clear leader in "mild hybrid" sales with 8 models (4 cars & 4 SUVs or crossovers). Nearly 20% of car sales are hybrids while 34% of suvs and crossovers are hybrids. The pickup trucks are not available as hybrids. Toyota is talking about introducing a pure electric vehicle other than the Mirai soon. |
| April 8th, 2021 at 8:32:45 AM permalink | |
| AZDuffman Member since: Oct 24, 2012 Threads: 135 Posts: 18203 |
And that is the thing. Greenies love EVs but hate power plants. Maybe the greenies in Suffolk county will let a power plant near Albion? The President is a fink. |
| April 8th, 2021 at 2:21:06 PM permalink | |
| Pacomartin Member since: Oct 24, 2012 Threads: 1068 Posts: 12569 |
I am skeptical if this whole EV thing will ever become that big. Toyota started selling the Prius in the year 2000. For the first quarter 2021 21.9% "mild hybrid" vehicles 1.9% "plug-in hybrid" vehicles 0.2% hydrogen fuel cell vehicles 0.0% battery powered pure electric vehicles entirely run from power from the grid So in two decades Toyota has had almost zero impact on the electricity grid. They are hoping to get hybrid sales up to 40% in four years, but the vast majority will be "mild hybrids". Toyota alternative fuel models |
| April 8th, 2021 at 2:51:52 PM permalink | |
| AZDuffman Member since: Oct 24, 2012 Threads: 135 Posts: 18203 |
Except hybrids do not draw from the grid. Some plug in, they are the very minority of the market. The President is a fink. |
| April 8th, 2021 at 3:41:40 PM permalink | |
| rxwine Member since: Oct 24, 2012 Threads: 189 Posts: 18755 | Speaking of hybrids the Prius has been in the top list of most reliable cars year after year. You believe in an invisible god, and dismiss people who say they are trans? Really? |
| April 8th, 2021 at 4:24:09 PM permalink | |
| Pacomartin Member since: Oct 24, 2012 Threads: 1068 Posts: 12569 |
It may be reliable, but this article says that the Prius is one of the least attractive vehicles ever made. The argument is now that the Corolla has a hybrid option with virtually the same performance as the Prius for $1K less, the Prius is obsolete and should be completely made over or retired. One difference is that the Prius with the seats up has about double the cargo space as the Corolla with the seats up. BY JARED ROSENHOLTZ https://carbuzz.com/features/why-the-toyota-corolla-hybrid-is-better-than-a-prius You can have style and fuel economy in the same vehicle. Last year, Toyota introduced a hybrid version of the Corolla Hybrid. While we've had a few brief opportunities to drive it at events, CarBuzz finally had a chance to test the 2021 Toyota Corolla Hybrid for an entire week. So, why were we so excited to drive a Corolla? Well, upon first inspection, the Corolla Hybrid may not seem much different than any other model. But if you dive a bit deeper, you may start to see why this car is so vital for Toyota. Following a peak sales year in 2012, when the Prius family sold 236,655 units, sales have steadily declined, reaching fewer than 70,000 sales in 2019. So what happened? Gasoline prices play a factor, as does consumer preference towards crossovers. We think Toyota itself may deserve part of the blame here. The company's other hybrid products like the Camry and RAV4 Hybrid are so fantastic that no one wants a Prius anymore. In fact, we think the latest Corolla Hybrid is such an essential addition to the Toyota lineup; it now renders the Prius completely unnecessary. Candy Wrapper Styling The Toyota Prius is the automotive equivalent of broccoli; good for you, but it looks weird and tastes terrible. With the Corolla Hybrid, Toyota took broccoli and disguised it in a candy wrapper. The Corolla may not turn any heads in traffic, but it's far from an unattractive vehicle. We enjoy the styling of the latest generation Corolla, especially with its aggressive front fascia and dynamic headlight shape. The 15-inch steel wheels look pretty basic, but we know Toyota included them to save cost and weight. Prius Efficiency Under the hood of the Corolla Hybrid sits a 1.8-liter four-cylinder engine paired with two electric motors connected to a 1.3 kWh battery, driving the front wheels. If this setup sounds familiar, that's because the Prius uses the exact same combination. Like the Prius, the output numbers are less than stellar, with 121 horsepower and 105 lb-ft of torque. The Corolla Hybrid was not built to hit 60 mph in under 10 seconds; it was built to achieve outstanding fuel economy. In EPA tests, the Corolla Hybrid achieved 53/52/52 mpg city/highway/combined, which is just off the pace of the most efficient Prius trim level. During a week of driving, we bested these estimated by averaging 55.5 mpg. We even observed over 60 mpg when hypermiling the car on the highway. It Doesn't Suck To Drive Anyone who has ever driven a Prius knows there is nothing sporty about it. The steering is dumb, the body control is atrocious, and there is not enough power. Although the Corolla Hybrid doesn't improve on the performance, it does fix some of the other issues. It drives, perhaps not surprisingly, like a Corolla. It might not light your hair ablaze through the corners, but it handles as competently as you'd expect of a compact sedan. The steering offers some decent feedback, and the body lean is far less pronounced than in the Prius. You still get skinny eco tires with less grip than an old piece of tape, but we had a fun time driving the Corolla Hybrid. A Normal Interior The Prius doesn't just look strange on the outside, the interior is funky as well. We've always disliked the strange dash design in the Prius, which places items like the speedometer in the middle of the car rather than in front of the driver. Higher trim models, including the plug-in Prius Prime, are even worse, thanks to a massive touchscreen that eliminates the volume and tuning knobs. We appreciate that the Corolla Hybrid comes with a normal cabin that looks like any run-of-the-mill modern Toyota. Spacious Enough In terms of rear space and cargo capacity, the Corolla Hybrid impressively does not lose out compared to its standard counterparts. The rear seats offer 34.8 inches of legroom, and the trunk opens up to 13.1 cubic feet with the ability to fold the rear seats. In the Prius, you only get 33.4 inches of legroom, making the Corolla Hybrid the better ride-share vehicle. Admittedly, the Prius has more trunk space thanks to its hatchback design, with 24.6 cubic feet behind the second row and 50.7 cubic feet with the seats folded. If you need more space than the Corolla provides, Toyota offers hybrid versions of the larger Camry and Avalon sedans, plus the RAV4 and Highlander SUVs. Sets The Prius Free With the Corolla Hybrid (and Toyota's other hybrid models) taking over as the efficient options for mainstream buyers, it allows the Prius to fade away after 20 years of iconic status. Toyota could retire the Prius name altogether, or it could give it the Mirai treatment. The Mirai was once even uglier than the Prius, but the next-generation model goes in a completely different direction with a new rear-wheel-drive platform borrowed from Lexus. We'd love to see Toyota give the Prius the same styling overhaul, but with a hybrid or electric drivetrain instead of the Mirai's hydrogen fuel cell. If Toyota listens to this suggestion, the Prius could go from one of the least attractive vehicles ever made, to an absolute stunner. But the biggest difference is that Toyota's only models with a plug-in option (branded as Prime) are the Prius and the RAV4. Perhaps Toyota should discontinue the mild hybrid Prius and only sell the plug-in (Prime) variant. The Prius Prime MSRP starts from $28,220 while the RAV4 Prime starts from $38,250. The Prius Prime is 49.8% of all Prius models sold, while the Rav4 Prime is 2.4% of all RAV4 models sold, so the extra $10K makes a big difference. Obviously the Prius Prime is meant to save you more money on fuel than a regular Prius hybrid, while the RAV4 Prime is meant to add performance. 0-60 MPH seconds 11.0 Prius Prime Hatchback 7.6 - 7.8 the RAV4 with Internal Combustion Engine 5.7 the RAV4 Prime (plug-in) : the quickest acceleration time for a four-door Toyota model. In the first 90 days of 2021 Toyota sold 7,301 mild-Hybrid Corollas 7,051 mild-Hybrid Prius So while the hybrid Corolla has for the first time outsold the non-plug in Prius I am sure Toyota will keep it around for at least 2 more years. |
| April 8th, 2021 at 4:50:29 PM permalink | |
| AZDuffman Member since: Oct 24, 2012 Threads: 135 Posts: 18203 |
The Prius has the "look at me" factor. Really if they wanted to save gas they would make their pickups mild hybrids, would save more. The President is a fink. |