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Why aren't battery power vehicles cheaper?
| July 11th, 2021 at 5:29:16 PM permalink | |
| rxwine Member since: Oct 24, 2012 Threads: 188 Posts: 18739 |
Squirrels will chew because their teeth keep growing. Anything handy will do. You believe in an invisible god, and dismiss people who say they are trans? Really? |
| July 11th, 2021 at 6:29:50 PM permalink | |
| DRich Member since: Oct 24, 2012 Threads: 51 Posts: 4959 |
Many years ago I had a very expensive Cadillac convertible sports car that I kept in my garage and didn't drive very often. Mice and other rodents inhabited it and cost me over $5000 in engine damage. At my age a Life In Prison sentence is not much of a detrrent. |
| July 23rd, 2021 at 4:08:32 PM permalink | |
| rxwine Member since: Oct 24, 2012 Threads: 188 Posts: 18739 | If you own a Chevy Bolt, you might want to park it in your swimming pool. You believe in an invisible god, and dismiss people who say they are trans? Really? |
| July 23rd, 2021 at 4:24:05 PM permalink | |
| missedhervee Member since: Apr 23, 2021 Threads: 96 Posts: 3099 | And we thought those exploding Pintos were bad ... |
| December 28th, 2021 at 10:45:35 AM permalink | |
| Pacomartin Member since: Oct 24, 2012 Threads: 1068 Posts: 12569 | BEV means Battery Electric Vehicle which does not use gasoline in anyway (as opposed to various kinds of hybrids).
We are approaching the three year anniversary of this announcement from Tesla. Even though the price at Tesla has gone up several times to a minimum of $45,000 for an improved model with 260 mile range, you would think that there would be half a dozen competitors at this same range at this price in three years. The Chevy Bolt is the closest because it is normally close to $35K and has a similar range. 2022 Chevy Bolt (STARTING AT 1LT from $31,995 and 2LT From $35,195 with destination and delivery ) EPA-est. 259 mile |200 hp | 6.5 sec 0-60mph | 5 Seats | 11.5kW Level 2 Charging Capability And standard DC fast charging capability. It is often repeated that an Electric Motor has so few moving parts compared to an Internal Combustion Engine that eventually it will be much cheaper. I fail to see much movement towards cheaper. If there were you would think the price gap between EVs and full hybrids would be closing.
A RAV4 Hybrid produces only 233 grams of carbon dioxide per mile. Electricity generation from fossil fuels ranges from 400 grams of carbon dioxide per kWh for natural gas to 1000 grams per kWh from coal. Nationwide almost 2/3 of our electricity comes from coal or natural gas. I know that renewables get a lot of press, but solar adds up to only 1.7% of nationwide electric production. In 2020 nuclear, coal, and renewables were almost equal. A bad EV like an electric Porsche gets about 2 miles per kWh, a good one gets 4 miles per kWh, and an average one gets 3 miles per kWh. So if your electricity comes mostly from coal or oil (20 states use coal or oil as #1 generation source) than the carbon dioxide from the electricity powering your BEV (using average 3 miles per kWh) is emitting 1000/3=333 grams per mile or more than the RAV4 Hybrid. On average in the nation the electricity that powers the BEV produces less carbon dioxide than the hybrid car, but a lot of times the improvement is very small (particularly in Wyoming, West Virginia or Kentucky). But the extra financial commitment for buying the RAV4 hybrid goes from $26,350 for the gasoline only version to $29,075 for the non plug-in hybrid (extra $2725). Toyota is deathly afraid of a complete ban on internal combustion engine and is mounting a major effort to convince legislature to permit both hybrids (plug-in and non plug-in) along with BEVs. They feel that many people can't afford a BEV and they don't have a garage so they don't have the ability to easily charge them at home. These 4 cylinder Toyota hybrids produce the least amount of carbon dioxide (grams per mile). None of them have a transmission with gears.
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| December 28th, 2021 at 11:50:57 AM permalink | |
| missedhervee Member since: Apr 23, 2021 Threads: 96 Posts: 3099 | Sorry to pee on the EV owner's corn flakes, but buying an EV is NOT solving the climate crisis, at least not yet. We burned a lot of coal this year to generate electricity. The idea of ramping up EV sales while not having a corresponding increase in green electric power is ridiculous, at least if your aim is to protect the environment. So instead of emissions coming out of their tail pipe they come out of the chimneys of power plants. Does anybody seriously believe we'll be able to meet our electricity needs solely from green power, at least for the next ten or twenty years? I don't: we need to find a permanent dumping place for nuclear waste (hello, Yucca mtn) and then build nuclear power plants using modern technology and better oversight. |
| December 28th, 2021 at 1:02:41 PM permalink | |
| AZDuffman Member since: Oct 24, 2012 Threads: 135 Posts: 18193 |
Their oversight is already good. What we need is standardized design and streamlined approval. Can't have every new plant held up for 10 years while lefty groups protest. We should be making 50% of our power from nukes by now. The Navy does it fine, get them to design the thing. The President is a fink. |
| December 28th, 2021 at 1:20:28 PM permalink | |
| Pacomartin Member since: Oct 24, 2012 Threads: 1068 Posts: 12569 |
I would say "ridiculous" is a little bit of a stretch. Transportation is "on average" much more wasteful of an industry than electrical generation. For 2020 187 units rejected energy for every 100 units of energy services in ELECTRICAL GENERATION 377 units rejected energy for every 100 units of energy services in TRANSPORTATION 204 units rejected energy for every 100 units of energy services in ENERGY CONSUMPTION for all uses in the United States including Transportation, Electric Generation plus Residential, Commercial and Industrial consumption. The "average" kWh of electricity generated in this country emits ~400 grams of carbon dioxide per kWh. The 'average" battery electrical vehicle gets 3 miles to a kWh. So on "average" the electricity to run a Battery Electric Vehicle is 133 grams per mile. There are, of course, huge variations from "average". The two vehicles that do not have plugs being sold in 2022 that emit the lowest amount of carbon dioxide are 158 grams per mile for 2022 TOYOTA PRIUS Eco 151 grams per mile for 2022 HYUNDAI MOTOR COMPANY Ioniq Blue Now the big factor is battery production which is associated with 56,000 to 494,000 grams of carbon dioxide per kilowatt-hour. A battery electric vehicle typicaly has a battery 10 times as large as a plug-in hybrid vehicle. What may not be ridiculous is the idea that it would be far less costly and reduce carbon dioxide by just as much to simply show some restraint. Don't buy the biggest vehicle you can afford, as the fanciest pickup trucks emit just as much carbon dioxide as the very expensive sports cars. Double up on the purpose of your trips. This is the list (so far) of 2022 cars that require a gas guzzler tax. They are ranked by grams of carbon dioxide emitted per mile. Trucks and SUVs are exempt from gas guzzler tax, but a 2022 RAM 1500 TRX 4x4 is the worst offender emitting 748 grams of CO2 per mile.
I know the 2022 list is not yet complete, because Ford had two gas guzzlers in 2021, and they are not on the 2022 list. 632 grams FORD GT 631 grams SHELBY GT500 MUSTANG |
| January 2nd, 2022 at 8:18:03 AM permalink | |
| Pacomartin Member since: Oct 24, 2012 Threads: 1068 Posts: 12569 |  Tesla delivered 936,000 vehicles in 2021, exceeding all expectations Deliveries Model S/X 24,964 Model 3/Y 911,208 That should probably put the Model 3/Y in the top 4 or even the top 3 this year, and it will almost certainly go to #1 next year. Deliveries worldwide in 2020 Toyota Corolla 1,134,260 Toyota RAV4 971,520 Ford F-Series 968,180 Honda CR-V 705,650 |
| January 2nd, 2022 at 9:50:36 AM permalink | |
| odiousgambit Member since: Oct 28, 2012 Threads: 154 Posts: 5092 | you posted an image of the Tessla Semi, are these produced yet? I found a page but not that kind of info https://www.tesla.com/semi I'm Still Standing, Yeah, Yeah, Yeah [it's an old guy chant for me] |