Why aren't battery power vehicles cheaper?

June 19th, 2022 at 2:30:11 PM permalink
DRich
Member since: Oct 24, 2012
Threads: 51
Posts: 4944
If I had to take a blind stab at it I will guess that over 50% of new vehicles sold will be EV by 2035.
At my age a Life In Prison sentence is not much of a detrrent.
June 20th, 2022 at 3:13:57 AM permalink
Tanko
Member since: Aug 15, 2019
Threads: 0
Posts: 1964
Lines are beginning to build at charging stations.

Fifteen cars waiting in line at this charging station.

A supercharger can charge a Tesla in 15-25 minutes.

Those people have a long wait ahead of them.
June 23rd, 2022 at 11:19:44 PM permalink
Pacomartin
Member since: Oct 24, 2012
Threads: 1068
Posts: 12569
Quote: DRich
If I had to take a blind stab at it I will guess that over 50% of new vehicles sold will be EV by 2035.

CARB says 100% by 2035 for the states who follow CARB instead of EPA.

If you mean electrified than Toyota already sells 25% of it's vehicles as electrified. But only 3% of sales are vehicles that require a plug and can drive 25 or 42 miles on pure electric. If by EV you mean strictly Battery EV (no gasoline at all), then Toyota sells zero in the US at this point, although they should have sold their first one before the end of the year.

In a proposal published on 12 April, 2022 the California Air Resources Board (CARB) raised the ZEV mandate to 35% of new sales for 2026, up from the current requirement of 24%. The mandate would reach 68% of new car sales in 2030 and 100% in 2035. Battery EVs, fuel cell EVs, and plug-in hybrid EVs would qualify as ZEVs.

CARB ispecified a minimum electric-only range of 50 miles for plug-in hybrid EVs to qualify as Zero Emission vehicles. A Toyota Prius Prime can go 25 miles on electric-only for less than $30K even for the AWD version. A Toyota RAV4 Prime can drive 42 miles on electric-only, but it starts around $40K.

A lot of models with plug-in batteries only have very short electric-only range.

Mercedes-Benz GLC350e 4Matic EPA electric-only range: 10 miles
Mini Cooper Countryman S E All4 EPA electric-only range: 12 miles
Porsche Cayenne e-Hybrid EPA electric-only range: 13 miles
Porsche Panamera Turbo S e-Hybrid EPA electric-only range: 14 miles
BMW 745e xDrive EPA electric-only range: 16 miles
Subaru Crosstrek hybric EPA electric-only range: 17 miles

The high end brands like Mercedes Benz, Jaguar, Volvo, Lexus etc. cannot see a downside to going all battery electric. It should eventually cut their manufacturing costs, consumers want it, and the sale prices are often $10K to $20K more than the equivalent gasoline vehicle.

But the makers of gasoline vehicles, in particular the hybrid models which are now topping 60 mpg for their EPA highway rating are going to fight back and they will have plenty of support from consumers who don't own their own garages.
July 13th, 2022 at 6:17:22 PM permalink
Pacomartin
Member since: Oct 24, 2012
Threads: 1068
Posts: 12569
New Car Sales averaged $48,000 for June, a new record.

Edison SOCAL is now charging as much as 65 cents per kWh from 5pm to 8pm for the four months of summer. So if you are thinking that an EV will save you money on fuel, you better not need a charge during the day.
July 14th, 2022 at 3:30:26 AM permalink
AZDuffman
Member since: Oct 24, 2012
Threads: 135
Posts: 18136
Quote: Pacomartin
New Car Sales averaged $48,000 for June, a new record.

Edison SOCAL is now charging as much as 65 cents per kWh from 5pm to 8pm for the four months of summer. So if you are thinking that an EV will save you money on fuel, you better not need a charge during the day.


I saw that and along with it the average payment is now over $700 per month. What has happened is people who buy new will not buy a basic car anymore, they want all the possible features. I keep waiting for someone to bring out a basic model at the bottom of the line like Hyundai did with the Excel in the 80s but do not see it happening.
The President is a fink.
July 14th, 2022 at 4:53:22 AM permalink
Pacomartin
Member since: Oct 24, 2012
Threads: 1068
Posts: 12569
Quote: AZDuffman
I saw that and along with it the average payment is now over $700 per month. What has happened is people who buy new will not buy a basic car anymore, they want all the possible features. I keep waiting for someone to bring out a basic model at the bottom of the line like Hyundai did with the Excel in the 80s but do not see it happening.


Hyundai Motor America began selling cars in the United States on 20 February 1986, with a single model, the Hyundai Excel.
A 1986 Hyundai Excel 2-Door Hatchback FWD (least expensive trim) had an MSRP of $5,495 .

2022 Hyundai Accent (Subcompact car) MSRP: From $16,645 MPG: 33 city / 41 highway Dimensions: 173″ L x 68″ W x 57″ H (120 hp 113 lb-ft)
$16,645 in todays dollar is the equivalent of $6,200 in February 1986 dollar.

Of course, Hyundai is now #2 in the US for electric vehicles. They just debuted the Ioniq 6 for model year 2024.
https://www.hyundaiusa.com/us/en/vehicles/2024-ioniq-6

The 1985 Chevy Sprint (designed by Suzuki), achieved 44/53 mpg without a hybrid–electric drivetrain, but it only had 48 hp. There is still a single model for sale today, a Mitsubushi Mirage, the produces 78 hp with a naturally aspirated 3 cylinder 1.2 L engine with an MSRP from $14,645. But even the hardcore budget shopper today won't normally look at a vehicle below 120 hp (Hyundai Accent, Kia Forte, Toyota Prius, Toyota Corolla hybrid, Nissan Versa, etc.),
July 14th, 2022 at 10:47:41 AM permalink
DRich
Member since: Oct 24, 2012
Threads: 51
Posts: 4944
Quote: AZDuffman
I saw that and along with it the average payment is now over $700 per month. What has happened is people who buy new will not buy a basic car anymore, they want all the possible features. I keep waiting for someone to bring out a basic model at the bottom of the line like Hyundai did with the Excel in the 80s but do not see it happening.


No point in making it unless they can sell a lot of them.

What is funny to me is that $700 a month doesn't sound like much anymore. Average 2 bedroom apartments are around $2300 a month here. One of my convertibles was around $700 a month a few years ago and that seemed like a lot.
At my age a Life In Prison sentence is not much of a detrrent.
July 14th, 2022 at 11:53:06 AM permalink
AZDuffman
Member since: Oct 24, 2012
Threads: 135
Posts: 18136
Quote: DRich
No point in making it unless they can sell a lot of them.

What is funny to me is that $700 a month doesn't sound like much anymore. Average 2 bedroom apartments are around $2300 a month here. One of my convertibles was around $700 a month a few years ago and that seemed like a lot.


When I did auto loans I got to see what they made on the credit application. The percent of income people accepted for a car payment blew my mind. Everyone is saying how the current payment is more or less with inflation, ignoring that we are now at over 6 years for the average loan term.

To me it is just more verification of the serf class being created in the USA. Having a car or house with no equity is little more than paying rent. Being off the car payment merry go round is so nice.
The President is a fink.
July 14th, 2022 at 3:55:31 PM permalink
Tanko
Member since: Aug 15, 2019
Threads: 0
Posts: 1964
Quote: Pacomartin
New Car Sales averaged $48,000 for June, a new record.


Prices were bid up by idiots who used their stimulus checks to buy cars they couldn't afford.

Stimulus checks are gone, and now car repos are exploding.

'Lucky Lopez, told Barron’s about some doozies he’s seen: people making $2,500 a month saddled with $1,000 car payments.'

'Lopez says he recently bought a Bentley, McLaren and two Aston Martins—all purchased by buyers using PPP money as down payments, and all repossessed after few or no monthly payments.'

'Lopez says banks are in turn leasing more land to handle an expected car-repossession surge.'

'But based on what he says he has seen from banks, subprime repos have nearly doubled since 2020, to around 11% on average.'
July 14th, 2022 at 4:09:14 PM permalink
terapined
Member since: Aug 6, 2014
Threads: 73
Posts: 11786
Quote: Tanko
Prices were bid up by idiots who used their stimulus checks to buy cars they couldn't afford.

Stimulus checks are gone, and now car repos are exploding.

'Lucky Lopez, told Barron’s about some doozies he’s seen: people making $2,500 a month saddled with $1,000 car payments.'

'Lopez says he recently bought a Bentley, McLaren and two Aston Martins—all purchased by buyers using PPP money as down payments, and all repossessed after few or no monthly payments.'

'Lopez says banks are in turn leasing more land to handle an expected car-repossession surge.'

'But based on what he says he has seen from banks, subprime repos have nearly doubled since 2020, to around 11% on average.'

This is great
A healthy used car market
Cool
Sometimes we live no particular way but our own - Grateful Dead "Eyes of the World"