Israel under Siege

This is an issue that not many in the U.S. seem to be aware of. But, in the Middle East, the county of Israel is under heavy attack from extremists organizations.

In some ways this is a conflict that goes back to the 40s. But, the current situation exasperated in the last few weeks for some legal reasons (essentially some Palestinians were evicted from homes in Jerusalem after some court battles), and Hamas (terrorist group that controls the Gaza Strip) seized on this to launch an open assault on Israel.

This is an old conflict that occasional boils over and will probably get better before it gets worse. I do understand how such a conflict is allowed to persist in the modern world and think the U.S. should get involved in a more proactive role. It seems that there is such turmoil that only an external mediator can balance the scenario. Of course U.S. forces getting involved would be unpopular for both sides, but would quickly solve the violence.

What I do know is that Hamas is a terrorist organization, who seizes on various social instabilities as an excuse to perpetuate violence in the name of equality. My personal belief is that they started the siege to postpone the elections as they excel at winning one election and they using force and extreme externalities as excuses to not have another election. They have not won an election since 2006, but stay in power by fear and propaganda.

We seem to be entering a state were sadly many Americans seems sympathetic towards Hamas. This is largely due to bias coverage by the media and the creation of a false equivalency narrative. I am shocked by how many Americans are turning anti-Israel (out of the people who actually follow the conflict, it seems that most are in favor of the wrong side).


https://www.wsj.com/articles/hamas-dials-up-tensions-with-israel-as-hopes-fade-for-palestinian-statehood-11620811856

https://www.cnbc.com/2021/05/15/biden-speaks-to-israeli-palestinian-leaders-as-violence-escalates.html

https://www.idf.il/en/minisites/hamas/

Quote: Gandler

We seem to be entering a state were sadly many Americans seems sympathetic towards Hamas. This is largely due to bias coverage by the media and the creation of a false equivalency narrative. I am shocked by how many Americans are turning anti-Israel (out of the people who actually follow the conflict, it seems that most are in favor of the wrong side).

This is not new, it has been going on since the late 1990s. I have for years seen how the anti-Israel movement has been growing on college campuses. Starts small, but grows. It is tolerated because Jewish students are usually successful and thus told to "deal with it." Read headlines today about protests against Israel. You read that right, the protests are against the attacked country defending itself.

Of course, why is Hamas attacking all of the sudden. Very good possibility is because they see a weak and sympathetic Biden in office. Likely figuring that Biden will not support Israel in this and try to broker a peace where they will get something. It could be just a normal increase in Palestinian violence which does ebb and flow, but the timing is interesting.

Quote: Gandler

This is an issue that not many in the U.S. seem to be aware of. But, in the Middle East, the county of Israel is under heavy attack from extremists organizations.

No kidding
How about those Orthodox Jews
Extremely extremist and against Peace
Anybody against moving the Capital back is against Peace.
Its pretty obvious Israel does not want AP and Al Jazeera reporting. Israel blew up the reporters HQ.
Israel govt is against peace
Its pretty obvious
The encroaching settlements are the major problem
Israel pushing this encroachment has led to the latest violence
Israel can have peace if they want it. The Govt would rather have war and keep the encroachment

Any comment on those Orthodox Jews in NY that totally abuse the welfare system.
Get a JOB, Stop abusing my tax dollars. Makes me sick.
The leeches of society
Why dont responsible hard working Jews do something about these leeches
Why should my tax dollars support a religion
Does the Muslim community pull this welfare crap as much as the leeching Orthodox jews
Support your own religion. Stop using MY tax dollars

Quote: AZDuffman

This is not new, it has been going on since the late 1990s. I have for years seen how the anti-Israel movement has been growing on college campuses. Starts small, but grows. It is tolerated because Jewish students are usually successful and thus told to "deal with it." Read headlines today about protests against Israel. You read that right, the protests are against the attacked country defending itself.

Of course, why is Hamas attacking all of the sudden. Very good possibility is because they see a weak and sympathetic Biden in office. Likely figuring that Biden will not support Israel in this and try to broker a peace where they will get something. It could be just a normal increase in Palestinian violence which does ebb and flow, but the timing is interesting.

I know I have personally seen (and more recently virtually seen many wearing "From the River to the Sea Palestine Will be Free", which is a terrorist slogan (The Hamas goal of eradicating Israel). A lot of young people seem to think this is some civil rights slogan and see to love wearing it and holding banners (which I would attribute 95% to ignorance, but I am sure there are a couple leaders who know what it actually means).

Quote: terapined

No kidding
How about those Orthodox Jews
Extremely extremist and against Peace
Anybody against moving the Capital back is against Peace.
Its pretty obvious Israel does not want AP and Al Jazeera reporting. Israel blew up the reporters HQ.
Israel govt is against peace
Its pretty obvious
The encroaching settlements are the major problem
Israel pushing this encroachment has led to the latest violence
Israel can have peace if they want it. The Govt would rather have war and keep the encroachment

Any comment on those Orthodox Jews in NY that totally abuse the welfare system.
Get a JOB, Stop abusing my tax dollars. Makes me sick.
The leeches of society
Why dont responsible hard working Jews do something about these leeches
Why should my tax dollars support a religion
Does the Muslim community pull this welfare crap as much as the leeching Orthodox jews
Support your own religion. Stop using MY tax dollars

I don't know anything about Orthodox Jews in NY abusing the welfare system. But, I do know these are such tiny communities that it cannot be financially relevant compared to overall welfare use.... I am not sure what comparing U.S. Muslim welfare use to U.S. Jewish welfare use has to do with Israel/Palestine conflict? There are just over 1% of Americans who are Jewish, and just under 1% of Americans who are Muslim, both are very small communities, so even if small communities within those communities uses welfare its really not a major issue (economically).

In my view all religions waste tax dollars by being tax exempt (which is far more major problem than a few religious people using welfare), but that is an argument for another day.


However, to your above point, Israel is not against peace. They are getting rocketed, how are they the aggressor? Throughout its existent Israel gets invaded, fights back and gets accused of being against peace. In its early history it was the norm for literally every surrounding country to invade Israel at once....

Why should Israel have to give up their capitol for peace?

Quote: Gandler

Why should Israel have to give up their capitol for peace?

?????????
Nobody on the planet is asking Israel to give up their Capitol
Just about every country on the planet is against the Capitol being in Jerusalem
Why
Because it will save LIVES
Good enough reason for me.
This mere fact proves the Govt of Israel is against Peace
Why do you think the planet wants the Capitol moved back
Has absolutely nothing to do with being anti jew
It has everything to do with making progress on peace.
Wake up
Support peace

Quote: terapined

?????????
Nobody on the planet is asking Israel to give up their Capitol
Just about every country on the planet is against the Capitol being in Jerusalem
Why
Because it will save LIVES
Good enough reason for me.
This mere fact proves the Govt of Israel is against Peace
Why do you think the planet wants the Capitol moved back
Has absolutely nothing to do with being anti jew
It has everything to do with making progress on peace.
Wake up
Support peace

I am sure that moving the capital back would create "peace for our time". After all Neville Chamberlain had good success with making an accommodation with Hitler.

Why haven't the Israelis evicted the Palestinians from Gaza and the West Bank and then built secure borders to keep them out?

Of course that would go over like a lead balloon, but the festering sores would be removed.

note: I am not pro-Israel, but I simply wonder why they haven't tried to do this, given their desire for a secure state; if the world objects, well hey, Israel has nukes.

Quote: missedhervee

Why haven't the Israelis evicted the Palestinians from Gaza and the West Bank and then built secure borders to keep them out?

Of course that would go over like a lead balloon, but the festering sores would be removed.

note: I am not pro-Israel, but I simply wonder why they haven't tried to do this, given their desire for a secure state; if the world objects, well hey, Israel has nukes.

They can't evict them from Gaza and the Westbank. Those lands are "Palestine".

Israel taking over them would make it a one state solution which would anger a lot of people.

They do have secure borders around Israel (including walls and missle defense "iron dome"). Gaza is where most issues are though (Hamas has control).

Quote: missedhervee

Why haven't the Israelis evicted the Palestinians from Gaza and the West Bank and then built secure borders to keep them out?

Of course that would go over like a lead balloon, but the festering sores would be removed.

note: I am not pro-Israel, but I simply wonder why they haven't tried to do this, given their desire for a secure state; if the world objects, well hey, Israel has nukes.

I would suggest you use google maps and look at the border with Gaza. A secure wall the whole way. They are doing similar in the West Bank but it is a longer and harder wall to build.

I've looked at the map.

The rockets red glare won't disappear until the Palestinians do.

Not that I blame the Palestinians for being pissed off.