Israel under Siege

Quote: kenarman

I am sure that moving the capital back would create "peace for our time". After all Neville Chamberlain had good success with making an accommodation with Hitler.

Completely different situation.
Cant even make a symbolic gesture to peace
telling
Against Peace
For war
sad

So today downtown (and I am sure this is happening in cities across the country), local BLM was hijacked (at least they claimed to be a collaboration) by some free Palestine group (I forget their actual name "Liberation" was in the title ).... Of course the police were blocking the road for them while they stood in the main downtown street making parking a pain....

I looked it up later on the news, apparently they are locally protesting the Israeli Police Exchange in the city, and my city has zero police exchange with any foreign country, so my guess is they got that talking point from some script they were sent to generate local protests.... (Also I do not get why a foreign police exchange would be a bad thing in the eyes of BLM, they frequently say police in other countries are better..... Again that is being generous and assuming this is even affiliated with actual BLM).

Ironically there was only two African Americans in the group that I observed (and I am not even sure if they were part of the group or just wandered in to see what was going on). It was mostly young white people (the same kinds of people you would expect to see on college campuses at these types of things, white hippie types that are probably looking for some issue to be socially evocative on) and people appearing Islamic (lots of women in hijabs....) It seems they are trying to hijack the BLM movement for some nonsense.... There was a "Stop the Genocide" sign, I agree which is why Hamas needs to be ended.... To be fair I did not see any "river to the sea" signs.... My general feeling on these protests are that they are led by manipulative groups who know the truth, and useful idiots (white hippie wannabe types) who are happy to look like they are fighting for the side of justice without any idea of what is going on....

I can't believe that this toxicity is getting so popular in America.

My question is for any pro Palestine people, if Palestine liberation is so important, why do they keep cancelling the elections? (This is one point I do not see anyone confronting activists with on the media).....

Quote: Gandler

I can't believe that this toxicity is getting so popular in America.

You can't? Why not? It has been building for decades. BLM is really nothing much more than the old Black Panther movement with a new name. And ANTIFA has joined them. The mainstream media gives them passes for rioting, looting, and racism. So now it is Israel. The mainstream media has been anti-Israel for as long as I can remember, along with the pop-celeb culture. Yes, the only democracy in the area, the strongest ally of the USA, the country that actually does much for the Palestinians, gets kicked in the face bu the lefty groups.

But keep telling us how more liberalism is such a good thing! More liberalism will bring more of this toxicity as it all comes from the left.

Quote: AZDuffman

You can't? Why not? It has been building for decades. BLM is really nothing much more than the old Black Panther movement with a new name. And ANTIFA has joined them. The mainstream media gives them passes for rioting, looting, and racism. So now it is Israel. The mainstream media has been anti-Israel for as long as I can remember, along with the pop-celeb culture. Yes, the only democracy in the area, the strongest ally of the USA, the country that actually does much for the Palestinians, gets kicked in the face bu the lefty groups.

But keep telling us how more liberalism is such a good thing! More liberalism will bring more of this toxicity as it all comes from the left.

I don't agree with that (you last point). When I first learned about criticism of Israel it was from the right. Combination of college professors and libertarian groups that despised Israel. (Even Ron Paul is/was pretty anti-Israel, he is one of the only mainstream politicians from any party that would bash it, I know this because I used to be a huge fan so I have pretty much watched every speech he has ever gave, lifelong Republican). A lot of the right wants to cut funding to Israel.

I got past my gut reaction in my younger days by doing a lot of research on the history of the region to determine that Israel is not perfect (nobody is), but it has the moral high ground on most issues that it is criticized for. And, for modern critics, the far-right is extremely big (look up "Zionist" on any NeoNazi website, its basically code for well obvious things....), also I include Islamic extremists as the far right (because socially and politically they are, even if they are not the American right).

But, I do agree that some of the left are dangerous on this issue. However, Biden has long been consistent, and I am very happy with him (not giving into the outrageous demands to condemn Israel).... But, yes there certainly is a recent "woke" (for lack of a better word) factor of viewing Palestinians as an oppressed minority, and Israel as a colonizer. You are not going to get a defense of these leftists from me, they are idiotic (at least on this issue).

Which group of people, the Palestinians or the Israelis, would be more likely to produce tangible and intangible things of value to the world if given exclusive, i.e. not shared possession of the holy land?

The winner should be obvious; the Palestinians are underachieves in the eyes of the rest of the world in comparison, just like other Arabs.

Israel may be an unfortunate post WWII creation based on guilt and reparations, but did they really have to give them the holyland?

What, western Australia or Madagasgar wasn't available?

Quote: missedhervee

Which group of people, the Palestinians or the Israelis, would be more likely to produce tangible and intangible things of value to the world if given exclusive, i.e. not shared possession of the holy land?

The winner should be obvious; the Palestinians are underachieves in the eyes of the rest of the world in comparison, just like other Arabs.

Israel may be an unfortunate post WWII creation based on guilt and reparations, but did they really have to give them the holyland?

What, western Australia or Madagasgar wasn't available?

To put it in North American terms the Jews were given their traditional territory, where they came from. Maybe the US can give them Michigan they could probably turn it around.

The allies really stuck it to the Palestinians, who lost their homeland due to no real fault of their own.

It would have been better and cetainly more fair to give the Jews part of Germany as their new homeland, to help atone for the holocaust; Prussia would work.

But siting them in the Holy Land?

Great caesars ghost, what were the allies thinking?

Hello, endless and insoluble conflict.

Quote: Gandler

I don't agree with that (you last point). When I first learned about criticism of Israel it was from the right. Combination of college professors and libertarian groups that despised Israel. (Even Ron Paul is/was pretty anti-Israel, he is one of the only mainstream politicians from any party that would bash it, I know this because I used to be a huge fan so I have pretty much watched every speech he has ever gave, lifelong Republican). A lot of the right wants to cut funding to Israel.

College professors would probably be on the far left. Funding probably needs to be scaled back as Israel is doing very well now. She needed help years ago but is today a booming economy. This is fairly recent. I saw a YT video on inflation in countries and Israel was near hyperinflation as late as the early 1980s.

When I was way younger I did not know what the conflict was all about and was not sure the side I was on. As I got older I saw how awful the Palestinians were about everything. They could try to make Gaza viable, they choose not to.

Quote: AZDuffman

You can't? Why not? It has been building for decades. BLM is really nothing much more than the old Black Panther movement with a new name. And ANTIFA has joined them. The mainstream media gives them passes for rioting, looting, and racism. So now it is Israel. The mainstream media has been anti-Israel for as long as I can remember, along with the pop-celeb culture. Yes, the only democracy in the area, the strongest ally of the USA, the country that actually does much for the Palestinians, gets kicked in the face bu the lefty groups.

But keep telling us how more liberalism is such a good thing! More liberalism will bring more of this toxicity as it all comes from the left.

Yeah, except instead of black panthers, they are mostly white stray cats.

Quote: Gandler

I don't agree with that (you last point). When I first learned about criticism of Israel it was from the right. Combination of college professors and libertarian groups that despised Israel. (Even Ron Paul is/was pretty anti-Israel, he is one of the only mainstream politicians from any party that would bash it, I know this because I used to be a huge fan so I have pretty much watched every speech he has ever gave, lifelong Republican). A lot of the right wants to cut funding to Israel.

(Quote clipped, relevance)

Libertarian groups? That seems odd. I would think the most Libertarian stance would be, "It's got nothing to do with us."

Oh well. Just because other Libertarians pick a side doesn't mean I have to. We're not big on ideological purity, so I default to, "They're over there and we're over here, so it has nothing to do with us."