License plate collecting with the Wizard

Quote: rxwine

Don't know if you're interested, but Supreme Court is hearing a case on license plates and free speech.

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2015/03/23/battle-flag-at-center-supreme-court-free-speech-case/

I didn't know about that, thanks. Not that it matters, but I say let Texas do what they want with their own license plates.

I'm glad to see the writer correctly identified the flag shown as the Confederate BATTLE flag. I think most people incorrectly think it was the official national flag of the Confederacy, but it wasn't, the Stars and Bars was.



I think the battle flag looks better though.

Quote: rxwine

Don't know if you're interested, but Supreme Court is hearing a case on license plates and free speech.

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2015/03/23/battle-flag-at-center-supreme-court-free-speech-case/

This should be an interesting ruling. First, as to the CSA flag vs. Battle Flag I would put the number of people who actually know the difference at about 10%, and among those "offended" I would put it at 1%. FWIW there are also two battle flags. One a perfect square, the other in more normal flag proportions. Not sure why the difference there.

Legally and logically I think the court must rule for the Sons and allow the plate. We are not talking about a private entity that has the freedom to stock the items they want. We are talking about the government. They are of course to make requirements on size, color, and font as that is a production issue. But to pick and choose who they will allow to do business with, they cannot do that.

I think the court will fall to where they must rule for the Sons. If they do not then how can they tell a business owner they must accept gay business such as wedding cakes if they do not agree with it? If the state can pick and choose then individuals can pick and choose. If they say the state can but individuals cannot, then we have really turned freedom on its head and thrown our rights away.

While not a collector, I have always liked plates from different states and times. But I was never big on all these affinity plates. I would ask Wiz as a collector how he and that community feel on them in general.

Quote: AZDuffman

...But to pick and choose who they will allow to do business with, they cannot do that.

I agree there. The general standard is the group must have at least x pre-orders of the special license plate to be approved. I think that is a good standard, even if it is the Klu Klux Klan asking for a special license plate.

Quote:

If they do not then how can they tell a business owner they must accept gay business such as wedding cakes if they do not agree with it?

I think we'll disagree on this example. In my opinion, if someone has a business that is open to the public then they have to accept all the public. If they do a personalized cake for John and Jane then they should treat John and Steve the same way. The argument "Let business do as they wish" could be applied to denying blacks to sit at the lunch counter. It comes down to equal treatment for me. The SCV (Sons of the Confederate Veterans) should have the equal rights, much like as a gay couple buying a wedding cake.

Quote:

While not a collector, I have always liked plates from different states and times. But I was never big on all these affinity plates. I would ask Wiz as a collector how he and that community feel on them in general.

Good question. The older hard core collectors almost always look down on special issue license plates. Back in the 80s, when there not very many special issues, they got some respect, and collectors tried to add them to their collection. However, now it has become ridiculous. Especially in some states like Florida that must have over 100 special issue charity plates. Nevada has about 20 current ones and some retired issues: link. The younger collectors tend to like them better and they seem to draw some new people into the club.

Personally, I endeavor to get every charity plate from California and Nevada, which are my states of emphasis. I think I have all of them from California, which doesn't have very many different kinds, and missing two or three from Nevada. I'm proud to have a California Bill of Rights plate, which was the first one in California and they made very few. However, I feel I'm obligated to keep getting the new ones and I feel like a sucker when I buy them.

In license plate news, the second biggest license plate collectors meet is an annual one in Vegas every year. It is this week at the Palace Station, so I'm excited. Today is the opening day.

.

You can see my Bill of Rights plate on the right side in the last row.

Quote: Wizard

I think we'll disagree on this example. In my opinion, if someone has a business that is open to the public then they have to accept all the public. If they do a personalized cake for John and Jane then they should treat John and Steve the same way. The argument "Let business do as they wish" could be applied to denying blacks to sit at the lunch counter. It comes down to equal treatment for me. The SCV (Sons of the Confederate Veterans) should have the equal rights, much like as a gay couple buying a wedding cake.

This is not what I was saying. Sorry if it came across wrong. I am not trying to restart the rights of the business owner vs the gay couple.

What I meant was that if the Supremes say that a state can deny a plate then it is very hard if not impossible to say an individual should not be able to decline business. IOW, If the state of Texas could deny a plate to the Sons but say a black owed bakery had to make a battle flag cake. If the state has a right of association but private citizens do not, they we have really lost our rights.

Sorry, I misunderstood you. I also didn't read the FoxNews article very well, which says that Texas already denied the plate and the SCV are trying to overturn the denial at the Supreme Court level. That is a tougher situation in my opinion. I generally favor both states right and equal treatment, it comes down to which one favor more.

In this case I have to go with the SCV and say that if they met every other requirement for the plate except "good taste" then they should not be prohibited. While I generally favor state's rights, the guarantee of equal treatment takes priority.

Quote: Wizard

Sorry, I misunderstood you. I also didn't read the FoxNews article very well, which says that Texas already denied the plate and the SCV are trying to overturn the denial at the Supreme Court level. That is a tougher situation in my opinion. I generally favor both states right and equal treatment, it comes down to which one favor more.

In this case I have to go with the SCV and say that if they met every other requirement for the plate except "good taste" then they should not be prohibited. While I generally favor state's rights, the guarantee of equal treatment takes priority.

No problem, it is all good.

As to the plate, this is going to be more than SCV. Some states have had issues with "Choose Life" plates. So reality is that the problem is going to get worse, not better, as time goes on. Of course, that is a prime reason the Supremes take a case, head off growing problems.

Lots of states have "choose life" plates, but I think they say it refers to adoption. Whatever it means, I have no problem with it. As long as the organization name or logo isn't obscene, all should be treated equally.

Quote: Wizard

As long as the organization name or logo isn't obscene, all should be treated equally.

Careful. I find most religion based bumper stickers obscene, while your "FUCK IT" plate doesn't cause me to bat an eye. "Obscene" is subjective, and you'll be handing the decision off to someone who may have different views than you.

Plates should just function as vehicle ID.
Free Speech, get a bumper sticker.

Quote: terapined

Plates should just function as vehicle ID.
Free Speech, get a bumper sticker.

Perhaps they should. But cars in America are more than transportation, and the gov discovered that our propensity to make ourselves unique and special results in more money for them. I am aware that some conservation efforts offer plates here in NY, and some of the fee goes to NYSDEC. If you're into anything from fishing to duck hunting, you can show your support by way of a custom plate. BUT, since we get that, the PETA types deserve the same opportunity.