chip shortage devestating new car sales

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October 1st, 2021 at 7:15:41 AM permalink
Pacomartin
Member since: Oct 24, 2012
Threads: 1068
Posts: 12569
If you had to choose between these two SUVs, which one would you pick?

Subaru Forester Touring trim 0 to 60 mph in 8.5 seconds
Base MSRP: $35,295+ Destination & Delivery: $1,125
2.5-liter DOHC engine
Power: 182 hp @ 5,800 rpm
Torque: 176 lb-ft @ 4,400 rpm

Leather-trimmed upholstery
Satin chrome side mirrors with integrated turn signals
Heated steering wheel
STARLINK® 8.0-inch Multimedia Navigation
Harman Kardon® premium audio system

Subaru Outback Onyx Edition XT 0 to 60 mph in just 5.9 seconds
Base MSRP: $35,145 + Destination & Delivery: $1,125
2.4-liter turbocharged DOHC engine
Power: 260 hp @ 5,600 rpm
Torque: 277 lb-ft @ 2,000 - 4,800 rpm

StarTex® water-repellent upholstery
Crystal Black Silica-finish folding side mirrors with integrated turn signals
Non-Heated steering wheel
Optional STARLINK® 11.6-inch Multimedia Navigation
Optional Harman Kardon premium audio system
October 1st, 2021 at 7:55:36 AM permalink
DRich
Member since: Oct 24, 2012
Threads: 51
Posts: 4944
Forester
At my age a Life In Prison sentence is not much of a detrrent.
October 1st, 2021 at 9:36:02 AM permalink
terapined
Member since: Aug 6, 2014
Threads: 73
Posts: 11786
Onyx
More towing capacity
Sometimes we live no particular way but our own - Grateful Dead "Eyes of the World"
October 1st, 2021 at 9:42:16 AM permalink
rxwine
Member since: Oct 24, 2012
Threads: 188
Posts: 18633
Realistically, I probably don’t need the extra power? What’s the mpg?
You believe in an invisible god, and dismiss people who say they are trans? Really?
October 1st, 2021 at 5:58:42 PM permalink
AZDuffman
Member since: Oct 24, 2012
Threads: 135
Posts: 18136
Due to the chip shortage GM might sell the fewest cars since 1958, itself a sales disaster year. Toyota might outsell them in the USA.
The President is a fink.
October 1st, 2021 at 7:55:16 PM permalink
Pacomartin
Member since: Oct 24, 2012
Threads: 1068
Posts: 12569
Quote: rxwine
Realistically, I probably don’t need the extra power? What’s the mpg?

Both of them are 29 mpg

Quote: terapined
Onyx More towing capacity

Subaru Outback Onyx Edition XT/Towing capacity 3,500 lbs
Subaru Forester/Towing capacity 1,500 lbs


It's strictly a choice of a Subaru with as much cocooning luxury with all the performance as your grandma could deire vs a SUV with the same powerful engine that they use (with modifications) in their WRX sports car. But the SUV, while not spartan comes with a minimum of niceties.

Quote: DRich
Forester

I've always felt that horsepower of under 200 hp is more suitable for cars under $30,000. I am somewhat surprised to see that many people feel otherwise.

Quote: AZDuffman
Due to the chip shortage GM might sell the fewest cars since 1958, itself a sales disaster year. Toyota might outsell them in the USA.

The Japanese brands are not immune to the chip shortage either.

2021 sales in third quarter 2021 in USA
566,005 Toyota Motors North America (Two Divisions)
446,997 General Motors (Four divisions)
410,917 Stellantis (Six divisions)
-------- Ford Motor Co. reports its sales Monday (Two Divisions)

2021 sales in three quarters 2021 in USA
1,857,884 Toyota Motors North America
1,777,483 General Motors
1,365,881 Stellantis

The average transaction price of Toyota is much lower than Chevrolet. For last month ATP by brand was
$35,089 Buick
$36,736 Toyota
$47,025 Chevrolet
$51,237 Lexus
$58,010 GMC
$74,332 Cadillac
So GM sales revenue from US sales should significantly be higher than Toyota North America.


Ford, GM, and Stellantis announce joint 40-50% electric vehicle sale goal in 2030. Toyota North America is predicting 15% Battery Electric Vehicles with 55% Hybrids (including some plug in electric vehicles by 2030. - So who is calling it correct?
October 2nd, 2021 at 6:11:13 AM permalink
Pacomartin
Member since: Oct 24, 2012
Threads: 1068
Posts: 12569
Many of the Toyota Models outsell entire traditional brands in the USA (numbers are first three quarters of 2021)

General Motors Brands
1,149,030 CHEVROLET
381,518 GMC
151,010 BUICK
95,925 CADILLAC
1,777,483

Stellantis Brands
604,671 JEEP
495,410 RAM
175,361 DODGE
74,139 CHRYSLER
14,193 ALFA ROMEO
2,107 FIAT
1,365,881

Toyota/Lexus popular models (Over 50K)
313,447 RAV4
256,769 CAMRY
217,727 COROLLA
207,564 HIGHLANDER
200,631 TACOMA
105,475 4RUNNER
84,625 RX LEXUS
83,447 SIENNA
65,013 TUNDRA
51,038 PRIUS
50,544 NX LEXUS
50,493 VENZA
...
1,857,883
October 4th, 2021 at 7:13:13 AM permalink
DRich
Member since: Oct 24, 2012
Threads: 51
Posts: 4944
Quote: Pacomartin


I've always felt that horsepower of under 200 hp is more suitable for cars under $30,000. I am somewhat surprised to see that many people feel otherwise.




i have never felt the need for more horsepower. as long as it can go 75mph i am content.
At my age a Life In Prison sentence is not much of a detrrent.
October 4th, 2021 at 3:25:39 PM permalink
Pacomartin
Member since: Oct 24, 2012
Threads: 1068
Posts: 12569
Quote: DRich
i have never felt the need for more horsepower. as long as it can go 75mph i am content.

A Mitsubushi Mirage is a front-wheel drive front-engined mini hatchback with 5 doors & 5 seats.
It only has a 79 horsepower engine (the lowest of any car sold in the US), and the naturally aspirated 1.2 Liter 12v Inline 3 engine accelerates this Mirage to 62 mph in 12.6 seconds and on to a maximum speed of 112 mph. You may have some trouble entering a divided highway in heavy traffic with that kind of anemic acceleration.

A Chevy Spark can reach 99 mph.

So no car sold in America except for ones that come in kits fails to reach 75 mph.

================================
But question is what are you getting for your money?
================================
For example Subaru sells what used to be a station wagon called the Impreza and they also sell a modest SUV/Crossover called the Forester built on the Impreza. They have been selling both of these vehicles since the 1990s. All Subaru's have all wheel drive which many people like.

We have an 2007 Subaru Impreza (automatic wagon) with 173 hp and 6.3 inches of ground clearance and 61.6 cubic feet of cargo volume with seats down.
In 2007 you could buy a Subaru Forester (automatic SUV) which had the same engine and 8.1 inches of ground clearance and 68.6 cubic feet of cargo space for an extra $1100. In 2007 for an extra $4500 for the Forester you got a turbo engine with 50 more horsepower. Imprezas and Foresters sold virtually the same numbers at the time.

In 2007 the price progression was fairly logical, but Subaru only sold 3.6% of the Japanese imports.

In 2022 the Forester (182 hp) costs $4,200 more than the Impreza CVT five door (152 hp), and if you add $10,100 to the base Forester price to get the top trim you get no extra horsepower at all. In 2021 Foresters outsell Imprezas 6 to 1.

Subaru deliberately hobbled the entry level Impreza to make it much less attractive by cutting the horsepower from 173 to 152. At the same time they cut the ground clearance to 5.1 inches, and reduced cargo volume. Then the executives did a minor increase in Forester horsepower from 173 to 182. Now the price difference from Impreza 5 door CVT to a base Forester increased from $1100 to $4500.

You can put all kinds of leather seats and electronics and plastic wheel cladding which can increase the price of the Forester up to an additional $10,100 . They stopped offering the bigger turbocharged engine in 2019, so you cannot purchase a more powerful Forester for any amount of money.

I feel llike the manufacturer is playing games with the consumer.

It would seem that the consumers are buying it hook line and sinker. They keep shelling out more and more money for bells and whistles.
In recent years the price progression favors lots of extra money for options, but Subaru peaked at 12.9% of the Japanese imports in 2019.
October 5th, 2021 at 12:59:48 PM permalink
DRich
Member since: Oct 24, 2012
Threads: 51
Posts: 4944
Quote: Pacomartin

It would seem that the consumers are buying it hook line and sinker. They keep shelling out more and more money for bells and whistles.
In recent years the price progression favors lots of extra money for options, but Subaru peaked at 12.9% of the Japanese imports in 2019.


The only option that I could never give up is the automatic cruise control that slows down and speeds up depending on traffic. I would probably pay an extra $5000 just for that option.
At my age a Life In Prison sentence is not much of a detrrent.
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