Reopening fiasco?

Quote: Evenbob

Just read a long article written today and the covee is exploding everywhere. Kids camps, campgrounds, any place where there's lots of people. In some states the hospitals are maxed out just like they were in 2020. In California over 7,500 fully vaccinated people have got covid now. And it's climbing. In India scammers have been selling fake vaccinations since last year in handing out fake vaccinated cards. So you have thousands and thousands of people who were never vaccinated that are being treated like they were. There's no country in the world that is more full of crooks then the super religious country of India. You get a phone call or something on your computer wanting money odds are it's coming from India. They have entire office buildings that are full of nothing but phone and computer scammers operating perfectly legally.

Wonder why it is not leading the news like last year?

Quote: OnceDear

Right now, there are legal requirements in some places. but setting that aside, I never did need to wear a mask to protect ;you' plural. I never did care about the health of 'you' plural. So nope. No need for me to protect you 'plural'
I might have worn a mask to break the chain of infection from me to you to a friend of mine. But now my friend is safe, No. i don't care about you 'plural'

Yet in your earlier post you ranted about safety measures being repealed. So your position is a but confusing.

Quote:

Well, like I said. I won't need to wear a mask to protect you, because I'll neither have the obligation nor the inclination. To hell with anti-vaxers is indeed my opinion.

So, you wear a mask to protect those who get the vax? See, if "to hell with anti-vaxers" was your opinion you would just go about life instead of ranting about them. FWIW, I just said I do not want the thing, if you want the vax get it has been my position. I do not hate people who get it. I say good for them, but I made my choice. Why can you not say the same?

Quote: AZDuffman

But the virus should not be surviving on you if the vax works, so how can you be carrying it?

The vaccines are not 100% effective and are less effective against the newer variants to some unknown degree

Quote: AZDuffman

Yet in your earlier post you ranted about safety measures being repealed. So your position is a but confusing.

Yes. I ranted and continue to rant at the laxity and recklessness of my government. And I didn't care before or since about the well being of the antivax anti mask brigade. Only slight inconsistency might be that previously I did not want to infect them, lest they infected someone else. Now, I'm happy to see them infected and suffering, though that is tinged by my desire to not see the medical system strained by them. If I had influence, those who had actively refused vaccination would be at the back of the long queue for treatment. Indeed at the back of every queue for sociable customer service.

Quote:

So, you wear a mask to protect those who get the vax?

I wear a mask to do my bit for the community including those who cannot fully benefit from the vax (immune suppressed family and friends). It's about suppressing the spread GENERALLY, by the assorted contributing precautions, whether that be infection via family, friends, those I care about or those I don't.
Watching friends get ill. while selfish *******s and idiots freely lend their lungs and legs to this virus to be superspreaders, does tend to inflame some of us.

There was a time where I saw it as reasonable to say 'I'll wait to see if the vaccine is safe' But I reckon we are way past that.
There was a time where it was all about handwashing and masks were of unknown value. But we have learned so much.
There have been times where we all thought to drop our defenses out of frustration. But that's not the same as never wanting to try to defend society.

Quote:

See, if "to hell with anti-vaxers" was your opinion you would just go about life instead of ranting about them. FWIW, I just said I do not want the thing, if you want the vax get it has been my position. I do not hate people who get it. I say good for them, but I made my choice. Why can you not say the same?

To hell with them is to actually wish them to go away, and to not wish them bon voyage.
But you don't hate 'us'. So thanks for that. You are not obliged to care about anyone but yourself. I get it, neighbour.

Quote: OnceDear

If I had influence, those who had actively refused vaccination would be at the back of the long queue for treatment. Indeed at the back of every queue for sociable customer service.

I wonder if you realize that this is the kind of attitude that let fascists, communists, or any other kind of repressive regime take and maintain power. Make compliance a virtue. Push those who do not comply to the edge of society. I can say that you would probably be given the privilege of living in Pyongyang or East Berlin.

We are not talking smallpox or polio here.

Quote: odiousgambit

The vaccines are not 100% effective and are less effective against the newer variants to some unknown degree

This and immunosuppressed people as onedear mentioned are why the argument is not the same as not choosing to wear a lifevest or wear a seatbelt. And even then, it wouldn’t be the same as you can spread the disease even before you know it as you can’t even see it.

And I don’t know what standard one could use to say the vaccines aren’t effective. That’s complete nonsense.

Quote: rxwine

And I don’t know what standard one could use to say the vaccines aren’t effective. That’s complete nonsense.

Indeed. Here we have 86% of adults single vaccinated and 64% double vaccinated (only adults eligible at the moment. This pair of charts shows the extremely effective suppression of serious illness from covid even where the number of infected is the same as the very worst stage of the previous phase.

Infections almost exactly as bad...






Hospitalisations about a quarter of the rate








And in case you think masks and social distancing were not effective in reducing infection and saving lives, look at Jan to June on this chart, where that was more or less all we did.





I'm not arguing that there were not other social and economic costs.

Quote: OnceDear

If you think vaccination hasn't worked, check out the 3rd and 4th set of graphs
https://www.bbc.com/news/amp/uk-51768274

Quote: AZDuffman

But the virus should not be surviving on you if the vax works, so how can you be carrying it?

The CDC states that "Vaccinated people could potentially still become infected and spread the virus to others." However the risk is reduced.

Now Japan is saying that they might not even allow Japanese spectators into the stands so there will be no crowds at the Olympics. They started in two weeks and covid is growing so fast that the government is going to proclaim a national emergency. Athletes from some countries are testing positive. This is turning into a total fiasco. And what's driving it? Money of course. The IOC makes 75% of its income from the Olympics off of what they sell the broadcast rights for. Every country there that has a network camera crew has to pay the IOC. We're talking three to four billion dollars total. They make the rest of their money off of selling tickets but there aren't going to be any tickets this year. And if they have to cancel again there's going to be zero money for the Olympics. Billions of people watch the Olympics around the world and the networks charge a fortune for commercials. How many people will watch when there are no cheering crowds.

This is just silly.

Cancel the games for 2021 and try again next year, assuming covid allows it.