Is Portland over?

Quote: Gandler

You think the decline started the same year the Civil Rights Act was signed?

It started with the liberalism of LBJ. Also, consider that before November of 1963 very few people in the USA saw a man killed for real. In one week they saw JFK killed in real time then Oswald shot live. Years later they would see it daily on TV News from Vietnam. Not

While that is not the cause, it is a big catalyst. Note how not until after that did we see the real violence of the 1960s. We also saw the rise of the drug culture which will be a huge factor in the final collapse as we are seeing today.

It has been a long process and not linear. We saw things get better in the 80s and 90s. But like a declining stock we have seen lower highs and lower lows.

Enjoy the decline--you cannot affect it one bit.

Quote: AZDuffman

It started with the liberalism of LBJ. Also, consider that before November of 1963 very few people in the USA saw a man killed for real. In one week they saw JFK killed in real time then Oswald shot live. Years later they would see it daily on TV News from Vietnam. Not

While that is not the cause, it is a big catalyst. Note how not until after that did we see the real violence of the 1960s. We also saw the rise of the drug culture which will be a huge factor in the final collapse as we are seeing today.

It has been a long process and not linear. We saw things get better in the 80s and 90s. But like a declining stock we have seen lower highs and lower lows.

Enjoy the decline--you cannot affect it one bit.

The world is getting better. People are living longer, more equality, less crime, less violence.

The idea that America is declining is fear mongering.

Even ultra conservative John Stossel did a piece in 2019 about how good things are versus how fear mongers (generally conservatives) try to make them sound:

https://youtu.be/UBeY6RJxafc


The facts are less violence, longer life, better jobs, better overall health, true equality, etc..... Things are getting better every year. If this is a decline, I am quite content. But, no reasonable metric would day humanity is declining.... Certainly not America...

Quote: Gandler

The world is getting better. People are living longer, more equality, less crime, less violence.

The idea that America is declining is fear mongering.

Even ultra conservative John Stossel did a piece in 2019 about how good things are versus how fear mongers (generally conservatives) try to make them sound:

https://youtu.be/UBeY6RJxafc


The facts are less violence, longer life, better jobs, better overall health, true equality, etc..... Things are getting better every year. If this is a decline, I am quite content. But, no reasonable metric would day humanity is declining.... Certainly not America...

Living longer? Sure. Equality? I guess. Less crime/violence? Not on your life.

America is in clear decline. I will maintain that the ultimate sign is the fertility rate, below replacement level. Now, Americans have always had about the highest fertility rate in the developed world even if only a bit above replacement level. This is no more. I have pointed out my reasons, any further should be its own thread.

Deny decline if you like. Some people are so far behind they think they are in the lead.

Quote: AZDuffman

Living longer? Sure. Equality? I guess. Less crime/violence? Not on your life.

America is in clear decline. I will maintain that the ultimate sign is the fertility rate, below replacement level. Now, Americans have always had about the highest fertility rate in the developed world even if only a bit above replacement level. This is no more. I have pointed out my reasons, any further should be its own thread.

Deny decline if you like. Some people are so far behind they think they are in the lead.

Is the workforce participation rate at 100%? Why is maintaining replacement rate an inherently worthy goal?

There is very little that we can all agree about any more; hell, covid-19 should have induced us to all come together for the common good, but it too became politicized.

In the fifties and sixties people were conformist, for the most part, and had common goals: defeating communism and putting a man on the moon come to mind.

But then things started to change.

Rather than wonder "how can I too get my piece of the pie" many students in the sixties asked "what is this pie that people yearn for, and why would I want to seek it?"

It soon became in vogue to question and reject all or portions of the American Dream.

Many fundamental truths were questioned, and some soon concluded that "the emperor had no clothes."

Exit conformity, stage right.

Polarization ensued, and here we are today, with the Democrats calling for change and the Republicans trying desperately to hold on to the old ways.

Quote: missedhervee

There is very little that we can all agree about any more; hell, covid-19 should have induced us to all come together for the common good, but it too became politicized.

In the fifties and sixties people were conformist, for the most part, and had common goals: defeating communism and putting a man on the moon come to mind.

But then things started to change.

Rather than wonder "how can I too get my piece of the pie" many students in the sixties asked "what is this pie that people yearn for, and why would I want to seek it?"

It soon became in vogue to question and reject all or portions of the American Dream.

Many fundamental truths were questioned, and some soon concluded that "the emperor had no clothes."

Exit conformity, stage right.

Polarization ensued, and here we are today, with the Democrats calling for change and the Republicans trying desperately to hold on to the old ways.

Covid-19 probably would have done the job had more people died. I would like to think that 25% of the U.S. population would have done it. The death rate was probably just low enough that certain folks could cry, "Panic," and, "Fear-Mongering."

Your next sentence makes a good point. Having a strong common enemy can be unifying. It recently did wonders for the political Left, as we see in the election results.

I don't entirely agree or disagree with the rest. It's certainly not a hard rule, but I don't really think you're implying that it is.

If there is a value to be placed on existence, I'd say it's either to pursue one's goals (whatever they are) as often as possible, or to be as happy as possible OR both simultaneously if the pursuing of goals is what makes a person happy above all else. In the meantime, one moral should be to do these things whilst trying to minimize, to the greatest extent possible, how much of a pain in the ass one is to other people.

Quote: Mission146

Is the workforce participation rate at 100%? Why is maintaining replacement rate an inherently worthy goal?

There are entire Wikipedia articles on population decline but basically we require it to keep the economy going. Because it also means an aging population, same thing is going to totally take down China the next decades. They are done as far as being a rising power. Momentum will keep them near the top, but big, big problems there.

As to decline, it is a sign of optimism. Peoples who are optimistic have more kids, people who are not have less. So you have people seeing the decline even if they are not able to articulate it.

Quote: AZDuffman

Living longer? Sure. Equality? I guess. Less crime/violence? Not on your life.

America is in clear decline. I will maintain that the ultimate sign is the fertility rate, below replacement level. Now, Americans have always had about the highest fertility rate in the developed world even if only a bit above replacement level. This is no more. I have pointed out my reasons, any further should be its own thread.

Deny decline if you like. Some people are so far behind they think they are in the lead.

There is less crime and violence, this is a popular talking point for the right, but its simply false.

https://usafacts.org/data/topics/security-safety/crime-and-justice/crime-and-police/violent-crimes/

Violent crime is in a downward trend for the last several decades, there are some years that there are small spikes, but overall it is steadily going down....

There are also less wars and violence globally.

Overall less violence in both America and the world than in the 1950s, this is simply true... And, every year continues to get better.

As for fertility rates? Who cares..... We need to slow population growth anyway. This is a sign that Americans are using birth control properly and following safe practices. Also, families generally want less children than they did several decades ago (maybe 1-2 versus 2-5 in the past for popular averages), so even families who want kids, aim to have less (just 1 or 2). I don't see how people wanting less kids and practicing safe sex is a sign of society declining..... If anything it symbolizes female liberation and societal education on safe sex....

Quote: Mission146

If there is a value to be placed on existence, I'd say it's either to pursue one's goals (whatever they are) as often as possible, or to be as happy as possible OR both simultaneously if the pursuing of goals is what makes a person happy above all else.

Historically people worked for the betterment and survival of their tribe, or affinity group: think 'cave men" pre-civilization and early civilizations.

The willingness to sacrifice oneself for the betterment of others was deeply ingrained in people and helped advance human progress.

Where do we see that today?

Not in America: many of us (not all, thankfully) are too self-absorbed, too addicted to FB and the like to lift up our heads from our phones and care much about others: why should we?

No, we see the willingness to sacrifce oneself today in Islamic cultures primarily, except now they're willing to die for their god, not for their tribe.

Quote: missedhervee

There is very little that we can all agree about any more; hell, covid-19 should have induced us to all come together for the common good, but it too became politicized.

In the fifties and sixties people were conformist, for the most part, and had common goals: defeating communism and putting a man on the moon come to mind.

But then things started to change.

Rather than wonder "how can I too get my piece of the pie" many students in the sixties asked "what is this pie that people yearn for, and why would I want to seek it?"

It soon became in vogue to question and reject all or portions of the American Dream.

Many fundamental truths were questioned, and some soon concluded that "the emperor had no clothes."

Exit conformity, stage right.

Polarization ensued, and here we are today, with the Democrats calling for change and the Republicans trying desperately to hold on to the old ways.

I said this on this site on Nov, 2012 about gerrymandering.

Quote:

When you go out of your way to rope in narrow interests, the voters you get naturally pick narrow interest candidates. Its effect is similar to selective breeding. With selective breeding you can produce extreme results.

Maybe that sounds like ideal representation to some, but you're likely ending up with people who can't work together. Like the cattle vs the sheep farmers.
If you completely isolate them, they stop relating as human beings and become more bitter with each other, 'cause neither of them know each other as neighbors anymore