Toyota calls BS to 50% battery electric vehicles by 2030

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September 10th, 2021 at 8:36:17 AM permalink
Mission146
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And, let's be clear, it's a market that Ford isn't even bothering to try to compete in.
"War is the remedy that our enemies have chosen..let us give them all they want." William T. Sherman
September 10th, 2021 at 8:43:20 AM permalink
Mission146
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Quote: AZDuffman
There are a few reasons to prefer a sedan. It is more formal looking if you have to drive around or just see clients. The trunk offers more security than a hatch or SUV. Probably rides better. What styling is left in cars they have it where a hatch or SUV does not so much.


Don't forget that it's smaller, which people like me just generally prefer. I'm more comfortable parking a sedan. If you think I need room, I sit with my back straight and my knees maybe a quarter of an inch under the steering wheel. I don't know that it rides better in the sense of being smoother, but I think it handles better when it comes to turning.

Quote:
I switched in 2005. Few years later I am at Christmas at my sister's place with her in-laws there and her father-in-law said how he still liked his sedan when I mentioned I would never go back. I will only get a sedan if it is a huge deal or/and a job requires it. I explained why but he said he was keeping his sedan. Well, about 8 years later he ends up with a mid-size hatch!

When my dad died my mother drove his SUV because she had some kind of medical thing needed the easier in and out. A month later I was listing her sedan on craigslist.


I used to have a PT Cruiser, which really isn't far off from being a crossover. It might have even been called one (Chrysler actually classified it as a truck, but that was because they needed to get the average MPG of their truck line up to meet some federal standard) had the term really been popular yet. In fact, I think some places refer to it as a, "Compact Crossover," now.

It was fine, I guess, but the turning radius was awful. I didn't mind parking it. Forget about ever making a U-Turn in the darned thing; that's not happening. That's another thing I like about sedans, excellent for no second stop (or slow down) U-Turns. Why? Because they are small and turn tightly.

I'm at the point where I go with what I prefer to actually drive than comfort, for now, but like I said, my knees will decide when that changes. I think I can ride out my current Elantra and then I've probably got one new sedan left in my knees. Probably looking at a mid-size SUV or passenger truck as I enter my 50's.
"War is the remedy that our enemies have chosen..let us give them all they want." William T. Sherman
September 10th, 2021 at 8:54:39 AM permalink
DRich
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Quote: Mission146


In fact, GM sold more Silverados as Toyota did trucks, and it's an absolute blowout when you add in other Chevy Truck sales. (June compared to June, 2021).

I


Wow, I find that shocking. I thought the Toyota Tacoma was a huge seller.
At my age a Life In Prison sentence is not much of a detrrent.
September 10th, 2021 at 9:01:56 AM permalink
Mission146
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Quote: DRich
Quote: Mission146


In fact, GM sold more Silverados as Toyota did trucks, and it's an absolute blowout when you add in other Chevy Truck sales. (June compared to June, 2021).

I


Wow, I find that shocking. I thought the Toyota Tacoma was a huge seller.


It's true. Chevy sold 126,591 Silverado units just in the first quarter, compare to Toyota YTD 183,161 total trucks as of June; 139,296 were Tacomas. The only other truck is the Tundra.
"War is the remedy that our enemies have chosen..let us give them all they want." William T. Sherman
September 10th, 2021 at 9:18:01 AM permalink
AZDuffman
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Quote: Mission146


It's true. Chevy sold 126,591 Silverado units just in the first quarter, compare to Toyota YTD 183,161 total trucks as of June; 139,296 were Tacomas. The only other truck is the Tundra.


Imports have had a harder time in trucks. Part the chicken tax. But the other part is because pre-1990s to be in the "truck department" at the big 3 was a backwater, the smart guys got put in cars. Upper management left the truck guys alone. So the truck guys built what the customer liked while the car guys were using all kinds of scientific management instead of instinct.
The President is a fink.
September 10th, 2021 at 9:18:08 AM permalink
DRich
Member since: Oct 24, 2012
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Quote: Mission146
Quote: DRich
Quote: Mission146


In fact, GM sold more Silverados as Toyota did trucks, and it's an absolute blowout when you add in other Chevy Truck sales. (June compared to June, 2021).

I


Wow, I find that shocking. I thought the Toyota Tacoma was a huge seller.


It's true. Chevy sold 126,591 Silverado units just in the first quarter, compare to Toyota YTD 183,161 total trucks as of June; 139,296 were Tacomas. The only other truck is the Tundra.


Clearly this is a regional thing. On the west coast I will see 5 Tacoma's for every Silverado I see.
At my age a Life In Prison sentence is not much of a detrrent.
September 10th, 2021 at 9:34:39 AM permalink
Pacomartin
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Quote: Mission146

Of all of Toyota brand sales were of passenger cars, which generally sell for less than trucks and SUV's.
Compare to Chevrolet (First Quarter Figures):
https://gmauthority.com/blog/2021/04/gm-sales-figures-numbers-results-united-states-q1-2021/

Bolt: 9,025
Camaro: 7,089
Corvette: 6,611
Impala: 462
Malibu: 26,987
Sonic: 1,065
Spark: 11,505

(9025+7089+6611+462+26987+1065+11505)/642250 = .0977 or 9.77% (Rounded)

Chevrolet is the last American brand that was selling a significant number of cars led by the Malibu. The Malibu production was completely destroyed by the chip shortage.

Chevy sales 1st and 2nd quarter of 2021 (cars add up to 11%, while the Silverado is roughly one third of sales)

31,886 Chevrolet Malibu
20,288 Chevrolet Bolt
19,260 Chevrolet Spark
14,584 Chevrolet Corvette
9,880 Chevrolet Camaro
1,512 Chevrolet Sonic
714 Chevrolet Impala
98,124 Chevrolet car sales

291,321 Chevrolet Silverado
118,667 Chevrolet Equinox
83,431 Chevrolet Traverse
39,854 Chevrolet Blazer
38,859 Chevrolet Colorado
29,429 Chevrolet Express
61,460 Chevrolet Suburban
50,935 Chevrolet Tahoe
48,368 Chevrolet TrailBlazer
35,048 Chevrolet Trax

895,496 Total Chevrolet

Quote: Mission146
That would explain why Toyota has a lower average transaction price that does Chevrolet, a higher percentage of Toyota's sales are passenger cars, which are cheaper.


Yes indeed that it is true. Nearly every Asian manufacturer still makes cars.

One executive predicted two days ago that there will never be a significant EV sedan. “Electrification will kill the three-box sedan for several reasons,” Gorden Wagener told TopGear during the Munich motor show. “Aero is one. Secondly, with a six-inch battery pack a three-box sedan simply doesn’t look good, it looks s***. You have to do something that visually digests the height.”
September 10th, 2021 at 10:08:10 AM permalink
Evenbob
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Quote: Mission146

I used to have a PT Cruiser, .


Rented one in Vegas shortly after they came out. Worst car I ever drove. Took it on the freeway to go downtown with the air going full blast and could not get it to go over 50 miles an hour. I got off the freeway and took it back and got a real car.
If you take a risk, you may lose. If you never take a risk, you will always lose.
September 10th, 2021 at 10:27:36 AM permalink
Pacomartin
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Quote: DRich
Clearly this is a regional thing. On the west coast I will see 5 Tacoma's for every Silverado I see.


Yes it is a Western US regional preference.

Nationwide, Toyota pickups are fairly distant from the big 3.

First 6 months of 2021 sales
362,031 Ford F-Series
313,069 Ram Pickup
291,321 Chevrolet Silverado
138,411 GMC Sierra
139,296 Toyota Tacoma
43,865 Toyota Tundra

The Tacoma and the Tundra (and 4 Runner) are going to be big challenges to Toyota's stated goal to offer a hybrid of every model.

18 mpg, 278 hp 2021 Toyota Tacoma 4WD DCAB MT TRD 380 miles range, 3.5 L, 6 cyl, Automatic (S6)
17 mpg, 270 hp 2021 Toyota 4Runner 4WD 391 miles range, 4.0 L, 6 cyl, Automatic (S5)
14 mpg, 381 hp 2021 Toyota Tundra 4WD 532 miles range, 5.7 L, 8 cyl, Automatic (S6)

The new 2022 Tundra is expected to use a new twin-turbocharged 3.4-liter V-6 engine. A version of this engine makes 409 horsepower and 479 pound-feet of torque in the new global Land Cruiser. It may have better mileage than the 5.7 L, 8 cyl,, but it is still a long way from a hybrid.

Toyota may end up using something called a "mild hybrid" which has a 48 volt electric system which runs everything in the car, but has nothing to do with propulsion. I just don't think people are going to want to buy a hybrid Tundra.
======================

You can build all the hybrids you want, but it doesn't mean people will buy them. A lot of people don't realize it, but the Highlander was the second hybrid that Toyota built after the Prius. Highlander hybrids were first sold in 2005, while Camry hybrids were first sold in 2006.

But even after all that time, Toyota doesn't sell a large percentage of these vehicles as hybrids.
12.4% CAMRY
23.9% HIGHLANDER

Given a choice, most people don't like the idea of paying extra money for less horsepower and potentially higher maintenance costs as the battery gets older. The savings on better mpg, don't outweigh the negatives in many people's minds.
September 10th, 2021 at 11:18:41 AM permalink
Mission146
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Quote: Evenbob
Rented one in Vegas shortly after they came out. Worst car I ever drove. Took it on the freeway to go downtown with the air going full blast and could not get it to go over 50 miles an hour. I got off the freeway and took it back and got a real car.


I don't speed, though I never had a problem going over fifty. Rental cars take a beating, though.

But, yeah, the Elantra gets from 0-60 about two seconds faster than the PT Cruiser, coming in at just a hair under ten seconds...which is pretty ridiculous! LOL.

They said top speed for a PT was 110 and I say absolutely not. There's no way that car gets to 110. I don't believe that whatsoever.
"War is the remedy that our enemies have chosen..let us give them all they want." William T. Sherman
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