Toyota calls BS to 50% battery electric vehicles by 2030

Quote: Mission146

I don't speed, though I never had a problem going over fifty. Rental cars take a beating, though.

But, yeah, the Elantra gets from 0-60 about two seconds faster than the PT Cruiser, coming in at just a hair under ten seconds...which is pretty ridiculous! LOL.

They said top speed for a PT was 110 and I say absolutely not. There's no way that car gets to 110. I don't believe that whatsoever.

To me the PT Cruiser is the AMC Pacer of the 2000's.

Quote: DRich

To me the PT Cruiser is the AMC Pacer of the 2000's.

The PT Cruiser was a Neon but held 2 more people. Meaning the platform was really at a breaking point. Styling was the Bob Lutz school of "piss off 80% of the people as long as 20% totally love it!" I didn't mind the styling because it actually tried to have styling, which car makers gave up on long ago.

But, see, it was a Chrysler and after Iacocca took over Chrysler long term quality went awful. They ran great for about 40,000 miles. After that you were on a first name basis with the service manager. Then Chrysler never put a nickel into it after it was introduced, just kept making it. It was not a bad size, there was a market there. Just who made it was the thing. Chrysler management squeezed a quarter until the eagle screamed.

Quote: AZDuffman

The PT Cruiser was a Neon but held 2 more people. Meaning the platform was really at a breaking point. Styling was the Bob Lutz school of "piss off 80% of the people as long as 20% totally love it!" I didn't mind the styling because it actually tried to have styling, which car makers gave up on long ago.

But, see, it was a Chrysler and after Iacocca took over Chrysler long term quality went awful. They ran great for about 40,000 miles. After that you were on a first name basis with the service manager. Then Chrysler never put a nickel into it after it was introduced, just kept making it. It was not a bad size, there was a market there. Just who made it was the thing. Chrysler management squeezed a quarter until the eagle screamed.

The 2008 model was solid. The only problem I had was constantly changing wheel bearings.

Quote: Mission146

The 2008 model was solid. The only problem I had was constantly changing wheel bearings.

I think it was 2002 when I rented the PT Cruiser. Maybe they put a bigger engine in them in the later years. Cuz I had that thing floored on the freeway with two people in it luggage the air on full blast a full tank of gas and I couldn't go over 50.

Quote: Evenbob

I think it was 2002 when I rented the PT Cruiser. Maybe they put a bigger engine in them in the later years. Cuz I had that thing floored on the freeway with two people in it luggage the air on full blast a full tank of gas and I couldn't go over 50.

Rental company had probably but a governor on it.

Quote: kenarman

Rental company had probably but a governor on it.

Yes, a Chrysler 4 cylinder governor.....

Quote: AZDuffman

Yes, a Chrysler 4 cylinder governor.....

Yes, it had and incredibly gutless small 4-cylinder engine and the car itself was not that small. When I turned the air on I could literally feel the car slow down because it was taking all the power from the engine. I rented a 2019 Chevy Cruze with a 4 cylinder engine and it was pretty preppy. Then I rented a 2019 Chevy Impala and it had exactly the same engine as the Cruze but it weighed 1000 pounds more. It was gutless and couldn't get out of its own way.

Quote: Evenbob

Yes, it had and incredibly gutless small 4-cylinder engine and the car itself was not that small. When I turned the air on I could literally feel the car slow down because it was taking all the power from the engine. I rented a 2019 Chevy Cruze with a 4 cylinder engine and it was pretty preppy. Then I rented a 2019 Chevy Impala and it had exactly the same engine as the Cruze but it weighed 1000 pounds more. It was gutless and couldn't get out of its own way.

4 cylinder cars are incredible today. My last car was 240 hp in a 4 cylinder package. The car had a governor at 160mph.

Quote: Evenbob

Yes, it had and incredibly gutless small 4-cylinder engine and the car itself was not that small.

The Chrysler PT Cruiser doesn't seem any more gutless than most other small cars sold today.
2001 Chrysler PT Cruiser
Base price $15,935
Hp @ rpm 150 @ 5500
Torque @ rpm 162 @ 4000
Transmission 5-speed manual
0-60 mph, seconds 8.6

The Subaru Crosstrek for instance has been a 148hp to 152hp engine since it went on sale in Sep 2012 and did 0-60 mph, seconds 10.0. Finally in 2021, Subaru added the option of a 182 hp engine for the higher trims (it is the standard engine on a Subaru Forester model). The Crosstrek is probably the hottest seller in the subcompact SUV market having sold 900,000 vehicles in 9 years.

Subaru simply took their Impreza which has been around since 1993 model year and made some alterations:

1. Ground clearance increased from 5.1” to 8.7”
2. Unique bumpers and grill;
3. Aggressive 17-inch silver/black alloys (instead of 16-inch steel wheels)
4. Wheel arch cladding;
5. Black rocker spoiler;
6. Privacy glass;

Now the humble little hatchback has become an SUV. Subaru added $3000 onto the base price. Imprezas sold 600,000 over the last 9 years to Crosstrek's 900,000 in sales. But this year with microchip shortage the Crosstrek has been outselling the Impreza 4 to 1. Given a chip shortage you obviously produce the more profitable vehicles first.

Subaru Impreza 5 door hatchback


Subaru Crosstrek


Subaru Forester


MSRP (not including destination and delivery)Crosstrek and Forester built on Impreza frame

1. $18,795 to $24,095 Impreza (152 hp)($5,300 range)
   $26,395 Impreza 5-Door Limited
2. $22,245 to $30,390 Crosstrek (152 hp | 182 hp)($8,145 range)
3. $24,795 to $34,895 Forester (182 hp)($10,100 range)

$22,245 - $18,795= $3,450 difference between base manual transmission for Crosstrek and Impreza sedan.
But Subaru charges $500 to upgrade the Impreza sedan to a 5-door Impreza hatchback.
Hence my comment that the Crosstrek is ~$3000 more than an Impreza.

But the way that Subaru makes money on the Crosstrek is upgrades to higher trim levels which take Crosstrek to over $30K, while the Impreza has only one trim over $24K.

Average Transaction Price July 2021 | Sales for first 6 months of 2021
$27,102 Mitsubishi 53,378
$31,320 Hyundai 419,991
$31,430 Kia 360,094
$32,117 Nissan 546,764
$32,307 Honda 745,126
$32,561 Mazda 184,703
$34,551 Subaru 321,250
$36,240 Toyota 1,090,126
$45,702 Acura 88,384
$51,490 Lexus 157,712
$52,227 Infiniti 36,938
$60,096 Genesis 19,307
$34,649 Asian 4,023,773

Quote: AZDuffman

And down from about 45% in 1980.
Roger Smith bet the company on FWD. He demanded Bob Lutz switch to FWD so hard in a conversation that Lutz had to remind him that he did not work for GM. The results were pretty bad. Lots of quality issues as GM learned that FWD is different from RWD. Customers did not like the new FWD cars at all.

According to wiki, Roger Smith was chair of General Motors Corporation from 1981 to 1990 during which time GM's share of the U.S. market fell from 46% to 35%. The wiki article does not talk about RWD or FWD. Perhaps the article should be updated

Five mainstream brands have 50% of sales by number of vehicles in the first 6 months of 2021.

13.1% Toyota ($40B)
11.3% Ford ($49B)
10.8% Chevrolet ($41B)
9.0% Honda ($24B)
6.6% Nissan ($18B)
50.7%

Given the Average Transaction Price calculated by Kelly Blue Book, Ford is clearly #1 by revenue with Toyota and Chevy nearly the same for #2.

Quote: AZDuffman

I kind of see the same thing happening with EVs. Mary Barra is betting GM on EVs to the point she is begging the government to mandate them. Same old GM.

The main takeaway here is that Ford, Chevrolet, Honda, Nissan all have targeted 40% battery electric vehicles at a minimum by 2030 (optional goals are as high as 50%). Toyota is saying 15% with 55% hybrids and 30% undiluted internal combustion engines. Toyota has such a large percentage ownership in Subaru, that Subaru's goals for electrification are identical to Toyota.

Toyota executives are saying what a lot of common people are saying. Electric cars are fine for owners of Volvos, Mercedes, Jaguars, Land Rovers, and a select group of non luxury car brands. But killing the internal combustion engine in 15 years is not going to happen on pure market forces.

Residential electric rates compared to Alaska (most recent month)
-2% California
-41% United States on Average
-58% Idaho, as state with lowest electric rates
+39% Hawaii, the state with highest electric rates (directly related to the state's isolation)

I actually think California may have a political upheaval over energy issues.

California's Motor Vehicle Pollution Control Board was established in 1960 to regulate tailpipe emissions.
The Motor Vehicle Air Pollution Control Act was federal law passed Oct. 19, 1965
California is the only state permitted to issue emissions standards under the federal Clean Air Act, subject to a waiver from the United States Environmental Protection Agency. Other states may choose to follow California Air Resources Board or the federal vehicle emission standards but may not set their own.

In 1960 there were 5 cities with more than a million people. As Los Angeles was the only one to grow up quickly after 1930 it necessarily had the worst air pollution from automobiles. Mass transit was still fairly popular in the other primary cities.
01 New York New York 7,781,984 (passed a million in the 1870s)
02 Chicago Illinois 3,550,404 (passed a million in the 1880s)
03 Los Angeles California 2,479,015 (passed a million in the 1920s)
04 Philadelphia Pennsylvania 2,002,512 (passed a million in the 1880s)
05 Detroit Michigan 1,670,144 (passed a million in the 1920s)