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Toyota calls BS to 50% battery electric vehicles by 2030

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December 30th, 2021 at 8:25:14 AM permalink
Pacomartin Member since: Oct 24, 2012 Threads: 1068 Posts: 12569	Quote: gamerfreak No thanks. Argument explaining why BEV dominates FCEV

December 30th, 2021 at 11:21:04 AM permalink
missedhervee Member since: Apr 23, 2021 Threads: 96 Posts: 3100	Quote: gamerfreak No thanks. There’s no shortage of videos of CNG/hydrogen cars exploding out of nowhere. I understand Mercedes-Benz is preparing to roll out its version of a hydrogen-fueled car. They call it the "Hindenberg."

December 30th, 2021 at 6:07:51 PM permalink

Pacomartin

Member since: Oct 24, 2012
Threads: 1068
Posts: 12569

Quote: missedhervee
I understand Mercedes-Benz is preparing to roll out its version of a hydrogen-fueled car.

This article is a year old.
Speculation that Musk might buy Daimler - Benz

But this speculation will not die.

Under U.S. stock-exchange rules, Tesla would only need shareholder approval if it increased its outstanding shares by 20% or ~ $200B.So Musk could buy the Benz empire without even asking permission.

Musk still personally holds about 175 million shares of Tesla stock worth $1,070 apiece. So his personally owned stock in TSLA is worth about $180 billion, but he also has ~$100 billion in other assets.

MARKET CAP OF TOP AUTO COMPANIES
Tesla $1,074.00 B
Toyota $255.32 B
Volkswagen $129.17 B
BYD $124.62 B -China
Rivian $91.36 B
General Motors $84.39 B
Daimler $81.81 B
Ford $81.80 B
BMW $65.02 B
Lucid Motors $63.79 B

December 30th, 2021 at 10:18:25 PM permalink
Evenbob Member since: Oct 24, 2012 Threads: 146 Posts: 25011	Do they have a Hindenburg line yet? The Hindenburg was full of hydrogen. I hear these hydrogen vehicles have a propensity to explode for no apparent reason. Other than they use one of the most highly flammable materials in the world. If you take a risk, you may lose. If you never take a risk, you will always lose.

December 31st, 2021 at 12:03:17 PM permalink

odiousgambit

Member since: Oct 28, 2012
Threads: 154
Posts: 5105

Quote: Evenbob

Do they have a Hindenburg line yet? The Hindenburg was full of hydrogen. I hear these hydrogen vehicles have a propensity to explode for no apparent reason. Other than they use one of the most highly flammable materials in the world.

somebody beat you to the Hindenburg joke, but in any case it made me wonder if that 1930s incident is influencing this idea today.

I googled to see if any cars catching fire or exploding have made the news, and no. I have to concede maybe it would happen if there were a lot of them out there, though I think exploding is unlikely. Even the Hindenburg burned rather than exploded.

This I came across:

Quote:
Myth #1: Hydrogen is too dangerous to ever be used on a large scale

The Hindenburg airship disaster and the explosive power of the hydrogen bomb (also known as the H-Bomb) have done little for hydrogen’s public safety image; but it’s an unwarranted reputation.

The 1937 Hindenburg disaster, in which an airship lifted by hydrogen gas caught fire, killing 36 people, is still held up as an example of the element’s explosive properties.

Whether the airship’s hydrogen supply was the source of the fire or not remains controversial [but] All this is somewhat beside the point: nobody today is talking about flying around using giant bags of hydrogen gas.

Like any technology, hydrogen is not and never will be completely risk-free. Hydrogen can ignite [burn] anywhere between 4 per cent and 74 per cent concentration, giving it the widest flammability range of any fuel. Hydrogen can also detonate into an explosion (where the flame travels at supersonic speed)... at concentrations of 18 to 59 per cent. And it doesn’t need much of a spark. At its most flammable concentration, of 28 per cent, a tiny spark with just 0.02 millijoules of energy is enough to ignite the stuff. Its flame, which is invisible, propagates very quickly.

The good news with hydrogen is that it disperses quickly. If it leaks into the open air, it rises (being much lighter than air) and its concentration very rapidly falls below the explosive level.

In a hydrogen-powered car, the type of tanks being developed to store the fuel are virtually indestructible. And even if the tank is pierced, hydrogen dissipates almost immediately.

This means that hydrogen, carefully managed, need be no more risky than the fuels we use today.

https://www.sciencefocus.com/future-technology/hydrogen-power-myths/

I'm Still Standing, Yeah, Yeah, Yeah [it's an old guy chant for me]

January 1st, 2022 at 6:17:07 AM permalink

Pacomartin

Member since: Oct 24, 2012
Threads: 1068
Posts: 12569

Quote: Pacomartin
Toyota has formally announced that they hope to sell 15% battery EVs in the US by the year 2030. Basically these are "compliance" goals. Toyota probably won't sell battery EVs in other than the 10 states that follow California standards.

Toyota announced that they are revising their global estimates for Battery Electric Vehicles (BEV) from 2 million to 3.5 million by the year 2030, and will convert their entire Lexus fleet to electric by 2035. In the United States Toyota North America sells more RAV4 sport utility vehicles and Camry mid-size cars than the entire Lexus lineup. The percentage goal for BEVs in the United States was not formally changed, but we must assume it is now above 25%.

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