"My body, my choice"

Quote: rxwine

There’s no equivalency of the imposition on an individual of a pregnancy vs, the imposition of a vaccine unless you believe a lot of nonsense about vaccinations. Give me a better equivalency.

How about smoking. We know it is horrible for the individual's health (as some believe not getting vaccinated is to the un-vaxxed) &
Smoking has negative affects on those around you. A lot of places have outlawed indoor smoking, but not casinos & some bars.
Plus what type of impact does smoking have on children in your home, your spouse, the neighbor in the apartment down the hall, etc.
We don't outlaw smoking. Why not if it clearly causes cancer & has an impact on those in breathing distance?
By the way, I don't think we should outlaw smoking or have a vaccine mandate.
I am vaxxed & have never smoked.

Quote: JCW09

We don't outlaw smoking. Why not if it clearly causes cancer & has an impact on those in breathing distance?

Hello Big Tobacco with their platoon of lobbyists freely giving money to our elected representatives.

Plus their money is now being made overseas exporting product to countries with less restrictive tobacco laws / policies.

Quote: JCW09

How about smoking. We know it is horrible for the individual's health (as some believe not getting vaccinated is to the un-vaxxed) &
Smoking has negative affects on those around you. A lot of places have outlawed indoor smoking, but not casinos & some bars.
Plus what type of impact does smoking have on children in your home, your spouse, the neighbor in the apartment down the hall, etc.
We don't outlaw smoking. Why not if it clearly causes cancer & has an impact on those in breathing distance?
By the way, I don't think we should outlaw smoking or have a vaccine mandate.
I am vaxxed & have never smoked.

I wouldn't go with the smoking one because that is a whole other thing.

Personally, I don't support smoking bans whatsoever, except in the following instances:

1.) A public place that permits children and does not contain the smoking to a physically separate room in which children may not enter.

2.) A public or private place that chooses, of their own accord, to restrict smoking.

OR:

3.) Public County-level votes to restrict smoking in certain types of businesses. In general, businesses that are already designed for adults exclusively (cigar bars, bars, lounges, nightclubs, gambling parlors and casinos) would all be exempt, other than going non-smoking of their own volition.

It's just another reason you have these people protesting in Atlantic City...the non-smokers can't prevail upon the casinos there to go non-smoking, and God forbid we actually have an area where businesses and individuals are making their own decisions rather than having what to do regulated to them by the Government...so we'd better go cry to Big Daddy Government to force the casinos to do it.

Most Liberals really are no different than most Christians, when you really think about it. I'm not even so much sure that individual people wish to have their lives dominated by what the Government tells them to do---I think that's just what they want for other people if the Government is forcing something that suits their own preferences anyway.

Quote: missedhervee

Hello Big Tobacco with their platoon of lobbyists freely giving money to our elected representatives.

Plus their money is now being made overseas exporting product to countries with less restrictive tobacco laws / policies.

I think just about every level of Government has spent the last twenty years, or so, handing Big Tobacco their @$$3$ a little bit at a time. I wouldn't be shocked to see cigarettes totally banned at some point in my lifetime.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xZCypUOH8js

I think drinking, drugs (to an extent) and sex with whoever you want will be spared. I could see red meat eventually getting banned, but probably not in my lifetime.

Quote: Mission146

The argument for forced vaccinations is, "You might get people sick, which might cause them to die."

The pro-life argument is, "You will cause this person not to be born, which according to my beliefs, is equivalent to directly killing an already born person."

That's the equivalency. From their perspective, they are being forced to make a decision because something might happen or they might acquire something and transmit it from the same people who argue for a would-be mother's ability to, from the Christian perspective, directly kill her own child.

Anyone on the Left who argues to the contrary simply wants to present the perception of consistency without actually being concerned about being consistent.

Besides, you can do everything right up to the line of Government-forced vaccinations...you just can't cross that line. Workplace vaccine requirements, for example. I honestly don't know what the left is complaining about...vaccines are, de facto, already forced in several instances.

I would argue that you can’t be murdering someone, even if it were an adult human being by removing them from your body. Particularly, if you enact life saving measures to save them when they’re disconnected.

That covers all the bases. If someone really wants the procedure of abortion, then removal with life saving measures is what the pro life position deserves. IMO, you should never be charged with murder anyway for removal from your body organ support.

Or to put it another way, you can chop the connection between Siamese twins, but you can’t legally stab one of them to death.

Edit, if one of them wants to be disconnected.

Quote: missedhervee

Really?

Really
You dont have the right to spread a deadly virus to the masses
This is the exact reason courts have upheld mandates
Its the exact reason why George Washington was pro vaccine

Quote: missedhervee

Hello Big Tobacco with their platoon of lobbyists freely giving money to our elected representatives.

Plus their money is now being made overseas exporting product to countries with less restrictive tobacco laws / policies.

Is smoking equivalent in your mind then to the vaccine scenario?
Are you in favor of banning smoking and think it would be banned were it not for lobbyists?
This is similar to your stance on vaccines, they should be mandated by the government?
Not sure I understand what you are saying in the above.

Quote: rxwine

I would argue that you can’t be murdering someone, even if it were an adult human being by removing them from your body. Particularly, if you enact life saving measures to save them when they’re disconnected.

That covers all the bases. If someone really wants the procedure of abortion, then removal with life saving measures is what the pro life position deserves. IMO, you should never be charged with murder anyway for removal from your body organ support.

I would argue that your argument is a terrible argument for a few reasons:

1.) What about, "Morning-After," pills? Once again, from the Christian perspective, if there was a conception, then you are as good as killing an individual.

2.) There is no life-saving option for early stage abortions, or at least, not one that I am aware of that is actually offered.

3.) Again, the Christian position is that they are a living and separate human being from the mother, but I'm sure that they wouldn't deny that they need the mother in order to continue to live.

Anyway, there's only one logically and ideologically consistent position: People should be allowed to get abortions if they wish and people should be permitted not to be vaccinated if they don't wish to be vaccinated. "My body, my choice," is either a principle, or it isn't.

If you have an anti-vaxxer who is simultaneously pro-life, then they are also ideologically inconsistent.

Quote: terapined

Really
You dont have the right to spread a deadly virus to the masses
This is the exact reason courts have upheld mandates
Its the exact reason why George Washington was pro vaccine

But vaccinated people spread the virus, so now what?