"My body, my choice"

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November 8th, 2021 at 2:47:00 PM permalink
JCW09
Member since: Aug 27, 2018
Threads: 12
Posts: 847
Quote: rxwine
I disagree. It was right to prevent Typhoid Mary from continuing to act like nothing mattered but her freedom.

Except Typhoid has a 10-30% death rate, 1-4% if properly treated.
Covid has the death rate of less than the flu if you aren't already unhealthy.
And if you are obese, diabetic and/or have high BP, it is more than likely due to your diet & lack of exercise.
So why is you're dying of Covid anyone's issue but yours?
Def. of Liar - "A Person Who Tells Lies" / "I lied. Deal with it" - ams288
November 8th, 2021 at 3:13:18 PM permalink
Gandler
Member since: Aug 15, 2019
Threads: 27
Posts: 4236
I think people should be heavily encouraged to get the vaccine (even if that means employment limited), but not forced.

I think its great that employers provide incentives (like keeping your job) to those that are vaccinated, and anyone who claims to be a conservative cannot say that a private company cannot require employees to be vaccinated (just like private companies can ban smokers from applying).

The abortion issue is a bit of a false equivalence, because an abortion only puts the woman at risk and only involves her body, it does not relate to public health or the spreading of diseases. Employers can't fire a woman for getting an abortion, but they can for not being vaccinated. One is a personal decision, one is a cultural decision (if you want a workplace that fosters disease spreading).

https://www.eeoc.gov/laws/guidance/enforcement-guidance-pregnancy-discrimination-and-related-issues#IA4c
November 8th, 2021 at 3:19:54 PM permalink
Mission146
Administrator
Member since: Oct 24, 2012
Threads: 23
Posts: 4147
I would say that the intent of an abortion is to put the fetus at risk, but perhaps I don’t have a proper understanding of what the procedure entails.

Again, insane or not, from the Christian viewpoint, a fetus (and, especially a viable one) is no less a human being than you or I are.
"War is the remedy that our enemies have chosen..let us give them all they want." William T. Sherman
November 8th, 2021 at 3:24:42 PM permalink
rxwine
Member since: Oct 24, 2012
Threads: 188
Posts: 18633
Quote: JCW09
Except Typhoid has a 10-30% death rate, 1-4% if properly treated.
Covid has the death rate of less than the flu if you aren't already unhealthy.
And if you are obese, diabetic and/or have high BP, it is more than likely due to your diet & lack of exercise.
So why is you're dying of Covid anyone's issue but yours?


Regardless of vaccination status or degree of lethality, I think a person without such disease has more right to be in pubic than a person with a communicable disease has a right to be around healthy people. If anyone needs to be restricted unfairly, it should be people who are sick with such a disease.

Reminds me, it's also interesting to consider what the big on liberty people would do with rights if we had had the Wuhan city here. In another words, an American city as the origin point. I'd be inclined, to at least attempt to keep anyone in that city from coming or going outside the limits, if i thought I had a chance to contain the virus before it gets to the rest of world. Obviously the Chinese failed, but they did try to restrict it to Wuhan.

(also, whether or not the virus was lab or wild, I think the culture of getting punished for delivering bad news really contributed to their acting far too late)
You believe in an invisible god, and dismiss people who say they are trans? Really?
November 8th, 2021 at 3:29:43 PM permalink
Gandler
Member since: Aug 15, 2019
Threads: 27
Posts: 4236
Quote: Mission146
I would say that the intent of an abortion is to put the fetus at risk, but perhaps I don’t have a proper understanding of what the procedure entails.

Again, insane or not, from the Christian viewpoint, a fetus (and, especially a viable one) is no less a human being than you or I are.


You don't strike me as somebody who would be against abortion. Especially as the usual black-market arguments apply to it (debatably more so).

Meaning when abortion is illegal women will still get them, they will either get an illegal one or travel to a different country to get one (or do one themselves which can be even riskier).

But, my main point was abortion is a protected status under the law, and only effects the women (and the baby if you want to go that route), it does not effect those around them in the office.
November 8th, 2021 at 3:33:05 PM permalink
kenarman
Member since: Oct 24, 2012
Threads: 14
Posts: 4470
Deaths from automobiles are roughly double per capita of Covid deaths. We could make everyone safer if we banned driving, should the government mandate that? If someone is not a competent driver they are endangering everyone else. If you voluntarily chose to partake in such a dangerous act as driving should your death benefits be refused? As discussed in another thread in big cities such as New York people make a a choice not to drive. I expect that driving deaths overlay red states they way Covid does. I wonder why Terapined has voluntarily spent more than a year in such a dangerous activity and endangering others?
"but if you make yourselves sheep, the wolves will eat you." Benjamin Franklin
November 8th, 2021 at 3:36:34 PM permalink
Mission146
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Member since: Oct 24, 2012
Threads: 23
Posts: 4147
Quote: rxwine
Regardless of vaccination status or degree of lethality, I think a person without such disease has more right to be in pubic than a person with a communicable disease has a right to be around healthy people. If anyone needs to be restricted unfairly, it should be people who are sick with such a disease.

Reminds me, it's also interesting to consider what the big on liberty people would do with rights if we had had the Wuhan city here. In another words, an American city as the origin point. I'd be inclined, to at least attempt to keep anyone in that city from coming or going outside the limits, if i thought I had a chance to contain the virus before it gets to the rest of world. Obviously the Chinese failed, but they did try to restrict it to Wuhan.

(also, whether or not the virus was lab or wild, I think the culture of getting punished for delivering bad news really contributed to their acting far too late)


Re: Wuhan

Getting back to your first paragraph, that’s where you get into the question of potential illegality of knowingly going around with a serious transmissible illness, or worse, knowingly taking action to deliberately try to infect others. Again, that could become something of a slippery slope, but a precedent for such a thing exists.

Legal slippery slope aside, I think another problem with such a measure would be that it might cause people to deliberately avoid medical care. Again, if the law restricts (as it should, if it’s to exist at all) punishment to those knowingly transmitting disease or risking disease being transmitted, then absent diagnosis, you could always make the argument that you didn’t know you were carrying anything.

As far as quarantining an entire city is concerned, I don’t know if there were successful Constitutional challenges to restrictions on Interstate travel, but such restrictions (typically on people coming in) were mandated by Governors of certain states during Covid-19. Similar restrictions also included mandatory quarantine for those arriving from out of state. As I understand it, for those who knew they were Covid-positive (pre-vaccine) some states also mandated self-quarantine…but I don’t know if that came with any actual penalties for failing to do so.

Your proposition is an interesting one because you’re discussing trying to limit a potentially novel contagious disease from spreading outside of a particular area. Is there any sort of precedent for such a thing that you’re aware of? I’m really not sure where I stand on that and it would be tough for me to offer an opinion without doing some in-depth research.
"War is the remedy that our enemies have chosen..let us give them all they want." William T. Sherman
November 8th, 2021 at 3:36:53 PM permalink
rxwine
Member since: Oct 24, 2012
Threads: 188
Posts: 18633
Quote: kenarman
Deaths from automobiles are roughly double per capita of Covid deaths. We could make everyone safer if we banned driving, should the government mandate that? If someone is not a competent driver they are endangering everyone else. If you voluntarily chose to partake in such a dangerous act as driving should your death benefits be refused? As discussed in another thread in big cities such as New York people make a a choice not to drive. I expect that driving deaths overlay red states they way Covid does. I wonder why Terapined has voluntarily spent more than a year in such a dangerous activity and endangering others?


Now you're getting into how much benefit from something vs its danger. Perhaps the benefit of covid is removing a layer of social security benefits to be paid out. But no one is going to legislate for that, so probably not a good idea to include it as a platform.
You believe in an invisible god, and dismiss people who say they are trans? Really?
November 8th, 2021 at 3:37:57 PM permalink
Mission146
Administrator
Member since: Oct 24, 2012
Threads: 23
Posts: 4147
Quote: Gandler
You don't strike me as somebody who would be against abortion. Especially as the usual black-market arguments apply to it (debatably more so).

Meaning when abortion is illegal women will still get them, they will either get an illegal one or travel to a different country to get one (or do one themselves which can be even riskier).

But, my main point was abortion is a protected status under the law, and only effects the women (and the baby if you want to go that route), it does not effect those around them in the office.


I’m definitely very much in favor of abortion. I was simply saying what the argument and perspective of Christians is.
"War is the remedy that our enemies have chosen..let us give them all they want." William T. Sherman
November 8th, 2021 at 3:41:08 PM permalink
Gandler
Member since: Aug 15, 2019
Threads: 27
Posts: 4236
Quote: kenarman
Deaths from automobiles are roughly double per capita of Covid deaths. We could make everyone safer if we banned driving, should the government mandate that? If someone is not a competent driver they are endangering everyone else. If you voluntarily chose to partake in such a dangerous act as driving should your death benefits be refused? As discussed in another thread in big cities such as New York people make a a choice not to drive. I expect that driving deaths overlay red states they way Covid does. I wonder why Terapined has voluntarily spent more than a year in such a dangerous activity and endangering others?


I actually agree with this, driving needs to be much stricter (and getting a license needs to be much harder, its kind of a joke that its a test that is impossible to fail). I also think the age should be raised to 18 and there should be no farm equipment exemptions.

Driving is extremely dangerous, and most people are way too casual about this.

If I lived somewhere like NYC where you can realistically not have a car and still be normal, I would happily give up personal vehicles (it would also be a great way to save money). Of course I hate condensed cities, so I violate my own logic in that regard (though public transit does need to be expanded everywhere).

Most people do not understand how dangerous driving is (its one activity that we all do everyday, and probably multiple times a day come within seconds of our lives ending if we did not catch something in the nick of time).
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