The Amy Schneider thread

Quote: rxwine

Well, you're the one who said gays have the right to marry as long as it's heterosexual, so your easy solution is not surprising anyway.

I agree with AZDuffman's solution on sports, as far as amateur sports go. When it comes to professional sports, if a woman wants to go up against a biological man, that's her choice, but she shouldn't be punished for refusing to do so if she feels she is at an unfair disadvantage.

Quote: rxwine

The only thing wrong is making the sport issues more important than the people issues.

A child can understand that.

Sports exist to be sports. In sports, you have rules. In sports, there are acts that are fair and, therefore, not cheating and acts that are unfair and, therefore, cheating. If you're a biological man competing against biological women in a sport where being a biological man gives an advantage, then you are cheating and your personal feelings really shouldn't matter.

Quote: DRich

Wrong, just ignore gender completely and everyone competes in the same arena. The best wins no matter the gender.

You could probably forget about ever seeing a woman play professional basketball.

Quote: Mission146

It's one thing for me to allow that a person's biology is generally unimportant when it comes to most things, but I'm not going to plug my ears, close my eyes and pretend it doesn't matter when it comes to sports.

I saw a video of some woman who is tops at MMA. Or might have been kickboxing. Someone said she could give Mayweather a good fight. She fought a guy who was middle of the road, no big name. He flattened her. I remember when Sorenson tried playing in a men's tournament. She missed the cut. When the Olympics were in Russia whatever year I watched freestyle skiing men's one day then by chance women's a few days later. The men outjumped the women by a wide margin.

It matters and always will.

Quote: AZDuffman

I saw a video of some woman who is tops at MMA. Or might have been kickboxing. Someone said she could give Mayweather a good fight. She fought a guy who was middle of the road, no big name. He flattened her. I remember when Sorenson tried playing in a men's tournament. She missed the cut. When the Olympics were in Russia whatever year I watched freestyle skiing men's one day then by chance women's a few days later. The men outjumped the women by a wide margin.

It matters and always will.

Yeah, I can think of only a handful of sports that could maybe sometimes be exceptions to the general rule. When I say that, I don't mean that being a man provides no natural advantage, just that the inherent advantage wouldn't automatically be the end all and be all.

Quote: Mission146

Yeah, I can think of only a handful of sports that could maybe sometimes be exceptions to the general rule. When I say that, I don't mean that being a man provides no natural advantage, just that the inherent advantage wouldn't automatically be the end all and be all.

Curling is one of few I can think of. It has to be a sport where speed and strength are not what matters. If it was agility and ONLY agility then it might be close. I would not allow gymnastics and such to be included as they are not pure "sport" as they are all subjective judging.

Tennis has mixed doubles but that is mixed and always has been. We will never know if Riggs tanked, but he was also way older and at the end of his viability.

I do not know that a woman ever defeated Andy Kaufman for the Inter-Gender belt for whatever that is worth.

Quote: AZDuffman

Curling is one of few I can think of. It has to be a sport where speed and strength are not what matters. If it was agility and ONLY agility then it might be close. I would not allow gymnastics and such to be included as they are not pure "sport" as they are all subjective judging.

Tennis has mixed doubles but that is mixed and always has been. We will never know if Riggs tanked, but he was also way older and at the end of his viability.

I do not know that a woman ever defeated Andy Kaufman for the Inter-Gender belt for whatever that is worth.

Curling is definitely one. Two examples of sports where I think men have a natural strength advantage, but not such that it would influence every final outcome, are bowling and golf. Bowling is a sport where strength gives an advantage, and I think we see that in the best lifetime averages...but I don't think it's enough of an advantage that would preclude a woman from ever winning a tournament against men. Same thing for golf, but I think the strength to drive the ball (if playing from the same tees) is going to matter quite a bit more than strength in bowling does...I'm just saying I think it's possible that a woman could win a PGA event.

I'd think the advantage goes to women on gymnastics anyway, but I'm not going to pretend to have any real idea on what the scoring guidelines are and I am sure what the judges are supposed to be doing is much more complicated than TV makes it sound. That's really no different than any other sports broadcast, football, for example, is a sport where the announcers seriously dumb the game down for the viewers at home. Of course, it would take about 200x as long to specifically describe everything that happened in a given NFL play than the play actually took...so super in-depth stuff isn't time feasible, either.

I don't know anything about Andy Kaufman. My point on sports is that the, "Average," female participant in a sport is not particularly likely to beat the, "Average," man and I think the trajectory is that the gap is as closed as it is ever going to get with true novices, starts to open up pretty widely in the amateur (but organized ranks) of sports and then starts to close maybe a bit at professional levels, and then, only in some sports. In something like football, the more advanced the level you are talking about (other than kicker/punter) the more screwed you would be if you are a woman.

Quote: AZDuffman

Quote: Mission146

Yeah, I can think of only a handful of sports that could maybe sometimes be exceptions to the general rule. When I say that, I don't mean that being a man provides no natural advantage, just that the inherent advantage wouldn't automatically be the end all and be all.

Curling is one of few I can think of. It has to be a sport where speed and strength are not what matters. If it was agility and ONLY agility then it might be close. I would not allow gymnastics and such to be included as they are not pure "sport" as they are all subjective judging.

Tennis has mixed doubles but that is mixed and always has been. We will never know if Riggs tanked, but he was also way older and at the end of his viability.

I do not know that a woman ever defeated Andy Kaufman for the Inter-Gender belt for whatever that is worth.

By that logic isn't boxing not a "pure sport"? Or Skating? Or skiing? Or an endless amount of other physical competitions where form and style is judged subjectively?

There are very few sports where there is no subjective judging at all (even baseball comes down to the umpires sometimes making blatantly wrong judgment errors). But, there are many where judging is a (or the) primary factor.

Quote: Mission146

Sports exist to be sports. In sports, you have rules. In sports, there are acts that are fair and, therefore, not cheating and acts that are unfair and, therefore, cheating. If you're a biological man competing against biological women in a sport where being a biological man gives an advantage, then you are cheating and your personal feelings really shouldn't matter.

The biggest, tallest, strongest or fastest man does not usually hold the GOAT title. At least outside pure one event things like 100M dash. Where multiple skills are required, they don't.

You still have to look at the number of women who have actually tried serious competition vs the number of men and the environment they are raised in, whether beneficial or negative. Women have arguably done more domestic chores than men but as it's not in a competition format so there's no particular reason they would dominate in high fashion or cuisine.

And they don't.

I don't consider the case closed.

...to continue.

Sure there are women in basketball all across high schools everywhere. But when you look at outside the school what do you see at the after hours and public courts. Which sex is putting in the most hours??