The Amy Schneider thread

A few comments on curling as food for thought. Curling participation in Canada which has the most curlers of any country is about 40% women. Women curlers play always play the game somewhat differently then men. The men throw a higher percentage of take out shots and some of the shots that require an extremely fast shot require more strength than the typical women has.

Sweeping a rock is more effective the faster you sweep and harder the broom is pressed against the ice. Both of these functions are better with more strength. The maximum pressure of the broom on the ice is also limited by the mass of the sweeper, more mass more pressure. Men typically weigh more than women.

Quote: kenarman

A few comments on curling as food for thought. Curling participation in Canada which has the most curlers of any country is about 40% women. Women curlers play always play the game somewhat differently then men. The men throw a higher percentage of take out shots and some of the shots that require an extremely fast shot require more strength than the typical women has.

Sweeping a rock is more effective the faster you sweep and harder the broom is pressed against the ice. Both of these functions are better with more strength. The maximum pressure of the broom on the ice is also limited by the mass of the sweeper, more mass more pressure. Men typically weigh more than women.

Did the sweeping start with the origin of the game, or was it something that was added on after awhile? Perhaps to give more people something to do?

Quote: Mission146

I agree with AZDuffman's solution on sports, as far as amateur sports go. When it comes to professional sports, if a woman wants to go up against a biological man, that's her choice, but she shouldn't be punished for refusing to do so if she feels she is at an unfair disadvantage.

Aren't there situations where gender is not so clearly defined. I still don't understand how Castor Semenya was allowed to compete in the Olympics as a woman, who went onto crush records.

The early games would have been outside on a lake. The sweeping would have been required to remove snow, frost and debris from the path of the rock. There are still a few natural ice curling rinks in the small towns of the Canadian prairies where frost would be an issue and need to be swept off.

Quote: Gandler

By that logic isn't boxing not a "pure sport"? Or Skating? Or skiing? Or an endless amount of other physical competitions where form and style is judged subjectively?

There are very few sports where there is no subjective judging at all (even baseball comes down to the umpires sometimes making blatantly wrong judgment errors). But, there are many where judging is a (or the) primary factor.

Not really. Boxing can be won by knockout. Figure skating is subjective, but speed skating is not. Skiing is by time and distance except for the freestyle events. Baseball is not subjective, there is a defined strike zone. Just because there is a ref calling penalties does not make a sport subjective.

Quote: Wizard

Aren't there situations where gender is not so clearly defined. I still don't understand how Castor Semenya was allowed to compete in the Olympics as a woman, who went onto crush records.

How they were allowed? Simple. "Woke" liberals allowed it. End of story. Either you say you compete in sports as your assigned gender or you allow people to choose and then anyone must be allowed to choose. And when you decide to go woke this is what happens.

Quote: Mission146

I don't know anything about Andy Kaufman. My point on sports is that the, "Average," female participant in a sport is not particularly likely to beat the, "Average," man and I think the trajectory is that the gap is as closed as it is ever going to get with true novices, starts to open up pretty widely in the amateur (but organized ranks) of sports and then starts to close maybe a bit at professional levels, and then, only in some sports. In something like football, the more advanced the level you are talking about (other than kicker/punter) the more screwed you would be if you are a woman.

That is the point but it will not close at the professional level. In golf the women will have to hit from the men's tees. That is going to change their results. Women's tennis matches are shorter. Bowling is tougher to gauge. Women use a lighter ball and will not have the same force to be sure. I do not think I have ever seen professional women's bowling on TV though.

The top women will regularly fall to "average" at best when competing with men. Feminists keep waiting for some freak of nature to come in and win so they can say "SEE SEE SEE!" She has not shown up yet.

Quote: rxwine

The biggest, tallest, strongest or fastest man does not usually hold the GOAT title. At least outside pure one event things like 100M dash. Where multiple skills are required, they don't.

You still have to look at the number of women who have actually tried serious competition vs the number of men and the environment they are raised in, whether beneficial or negative. Women have arguably done more domestic chores than men but as it's not in a competition format so there's no particular reason they would dominate in high fashion or cuisine.

And they don't.

I don't consider the case closed.

You're not wrong, but what you are talking about is women going over to the mens' sports and competing. I'm pretty much fine with that happening anytime because, for one reason or another, (though you as much as admit that biology is sometimes a factor) men are considered to have an advantage.

When you're talking about transexuals going over and competing against women, that's just men going into women's sports and competing against them. Often, particularly in amateur sports, none of the women asked to compete against men. And, the PC niceties are out the window...it's actually funny you should mention the 100M dash, because track and field events (including that one) were exactly the case in H.S. women's athletics in Connecticut.

In Connecticut, they set, "Women's records," by a very safe margin. They came in first and second (there were two of them) most dash races where they would have come in last and second-to-last (by a laughable amount) if they'd had to run against the other boys. They wouldn't have had a prayer of finishing Top Three...much less setting records...their times are such that they never would have qualified for the men's events to begin with...but they're leaving the girls in the dust.

So, what do you do? Rock meet hard place. It's not like you can pick and choose sports, or you're admitting there is a biological difference. Have to go all one way or all the other, but since everyone is so big on this difference between sex and gender, let's just say you compete with your sex and leave it at that.

Quote: Mission146

You're not wrong, but what you are talking about is women going over to the mens' sports and competing. I'm pretty much fine with that happening anytime because, for one reason or another, (though you as much as admit that biology is sometimes a factor) men are considered to have an advantage.

When you're talking about transexuals going over and competing against women, that's just men going into women's sports and competing against them. Often, particularly in amateur sports, none of the women asked to compete against men. And, the PC niceties are out the window...it's actually funny you should mention the 100M dash, because track and field events (including that one) were exactly the case in H.S. women's athletics in Connecticut.

In Connecticut, they set, "Women's records," by a very safe margin. They came in first and second (there were two of them) most dash races where they would have come in last and second-to-last (by a laughable amount) if they'd had to run against the other boys. They wouldn't have had a prayer of finishing Top Three...much less setting records...their times are such that they never would have qualified for the men's events to begin with...but they're leaving the girls in the dust.

So, what do you do? Rock meet hard place. It's not like you can pick and choose sports, or you're admitting there is a biological difference. Have to go all one way or all the other, but since everyone is so big on this difference between sex and gender, let's just say you compete with your sex and leave it at that.

AFAIC, the record keepers are going to put an asterisk* by records where there's any controversy. They'll do it where they think rules, drugs, sex, or anything else was a factor.

So, in an overall sense, I don't think it matters.

Quote: Wizard

Aren't there situations where gender is not so clearly defined. I still don't understand how Castor Semenya was allowed to compete in the Olympics as a woman, who went onto crush records.

It's kind of funny that she would now have to take hormones to suppress her testosterone levels, (not the case when she competed) but it's okay to just straight up be a dude as long as you say you think you're a woman. Yes, I know different athletic institutions have different requirements, but some advantages don't magically or medically go away just because you declare that you're not a guy anymore.