Work school

Quote: rxwine

Yeah, but I never set out to devalue blue collar work like you try to devalue higher education. I just have to keep making the point that both are important.

Not only AZD devalue a degree but Bill Gates dropped out before getting his degree. How did that work our for him? Gates is one of many billionaires that left college to make a real living.

Quote: kenarman

Not only AZD devalue a degree but Bill Gates dropped out before getting his degree. How did that work our for him? Gates is one of many billionaires that left college to make a real living.

Yeah, tell me the odds of becoming the world's richest person eventually? I hope you don't give your kids such awful advice based on Gates dropping out college.

Also Gate's kids went to college.

Quote:

“College graduates are more likely to find a rewarding job, earn higher income, and even, evidence shows, live healthier lives than if they didn't have degrees. They also bring training and skills into America's workforce, helping our economy grow and stay competitive. That benefits everyone,” Gates wrote.Sep 5, 2018

Yup, that's the advice Bil Gates is giving.

I will say this though -- some kids show a strong drive, talent or penchant for certain kind of work. I think it's great if you've got a kid like that and letting him or her pursue that instead of college is also great. But, I just don't know how common that is, but I certainly have no problem with it. I don't care if he has a talent for running the greatest garbage truck empire. If he has that strong a will for it, let him go and encourage him or her.

Quote: rxwine

I will say this though -- some kids show a strong drive, talent or penchant for certain kind of work. I think it's great if you've got a kid like that and letting him or her pursue that instead of college is also great. But, I just don't know how common that is, but I certainly have no problem with it. I don't care if he has a talent for running the greatest garbage truck empire. If he has that strong a will for it, let him go and encourage him or her.

Some of the best computer programmers that I have worked with didn't go to college or dropped out. I would also guess that they put twice as many hours into their craft than did most college graduates. They might not be as talented in other areas but when it comes to computers they are geniuses.

Quote: DRich

Some of the best computer programmers that I have worked with didn't go to college or dropped out. I would also guess that they put twice as many hours into their craft than did most college graduates. They might not be as talented in other areas but when it comes to computers they are geniuses.

So here is an interesting question for you, what are your thoughts on coding bootcamps (legit ones, not the obvious scams), that are continuing to pop up -now many are 100% online. Many claim to teach you, and give you a certification in X weeks or X months, but are intensive (compared to a regular student schedule)? Some (maybe most legit ones) even off zero money upfront, in exchange for you have to pay a certain percentage of your yearly income for X amount of years after graduation (some private flight programs also have this model), which is interesting because it shows they have faith that after your program you will earn an income at a level that could pay off the cost of the program? Its kind of an interesting "loan" (not even sure if this is the right term) system for any program that offers this (because there is a chance the educator receives nothing if the student simply does not work at all for the five years after graduation, or does not graduate, etc...), but that is a whole separate topic (types of student loans/costs in different ways).

Because this gets to the heart of the certification versus degree matter. In some fields can it be more efficient and profitable to take an intensive bootcamp where you learn just the precise skills for a certain job for X months versus four years of college? And Computer Science is a great example to compare (because both degrees and certifications programs are popular).

If both providers (educational institutions) and financial lenders, think that certification programs are more profitable and safer bets, it begs their confidence in the narrative that "everyone must complete college". Of course, individual and institutional profit are not the only reason for a higher education, but lets be real, its the main factor (we all have drilled in our heads since 8th grade that "people with a Bachelor's degree earn over a million dollar more over their life", which is a bad talking point for a number of reasons, but its technically true to be fair, even if the formula is very flawed ).

Quote: DRich

Some of the best computer programmers that I have worked with didn't go to college or dropped out. I would also guess that they put twice as many hours into their craft than did most college graduates. They might not be as talented in other areas but when it comes to computers they are geniuses.

I know a guy like that. More a systems guy but same thing. He could barely hold a C in college, but he could make the network run. Over 30 years he has gotten all kinds of certs. He was sent to Malaysia for a year or two to run the site over there. He can figure out anything about a computer but has no time or attention span for all the prereqs and other courses in college.

Quote: Gandler

If/when America hits 95% literacy, the country will be completely changed beyond our wildest imagination. Think of the people born in the 1890s, and think of how different the world was by 1930. In 40 years, the country transformed to something that would look like it was out of a scifi novel a few decades ago. And, this was because of the growth of literacy and technological innovations that made less people needed for farms and factories (and hence easier for people to have time to learn to read and educate).

We have this great program for literacy. 8 free years of primary education then 4 free years of secondary education.

Quote: Gandler

So here is an interesting question for you, what are your thoughts on coding bootcamps (legit ones, not the obvious scams), that are continuing to pop up -now many are 100% online. Many claim to teach you, and give you a certification in X weeks or X months, but are intensive (compared to a regular student schedule)? Some (maybe most legit ones) even off zero money upfront, in exchange for you have to pay a certain percentage of your yearly income for X amount of years after graduation (some private flight programs also have this model), which is interesting because it shows they have faith that after your program you will earn an income at a level that could pay off the cost of the program? Its kind of an interesting "loan" (not even sure if this is the right term) system for any program that offers this (because there is a chance the educator receives nothing if the student simply does not work at all for the five years after graduation, or does not graduate, etc...), but that is a whole separate topic (types of student loans/costs in different ways).

Because this gets to the heart of the certification versus degree matter. In some fields can it be more efficient and profitable to take an intensive bootcamp where you learn just the precise skills for a certain job for X months versus four years of college? And Computer Science is a great example to compare (because both degrees and certifications programs are popular).

If both providers (educational institutions) and financial lenders, think that certification programs are more profitable and safer bets, it begs their confidence in the narrative that "everyone must complete college". Of course, individual and institutional profit are not the only reason for a higher education, but lets be real, its the main factor (we all have drilled in our heads since 8th grade that "people with a Bachelor's degree earn over a million dollar more over their life", which is a bad talking point for a number of reasons, but its technically true to be fair, even if the formula is very flawed ).

I am not familiar with any bootcamps but my belief is today almost everything can be learned on your own if you are committed to it and put in the time. Almost every curriculum has outlines from schools available online. Find some that look intriguing and dedicate lots and lots of time to it. There are forums and Q&A's available all over the internet when you get stumped. I think it all comes down to motivation, the material and resources is widely available. I think where many people fail is that they don't have the time to dedicate or are not willing to. I was fortunate that I was able to spend 12 to 14 hours per day learning to program.

I hold zero computer science or MIS specialized certifications. Learn the basics, get a starting job wherever you can even if it is low paying, prove yourself and work your way up quickly. My first computer programming jobs paid about $6 an hour. I make a little more than that now.

Quote: DRich

My first computer programming jobs paid about $6 an hour. I make a little more than that now.

I bet it was more than a dime raise. My very first job was a cashier at an Eagle Army Navy store in Florida. I was told after so many months I would get a dime raise an hour. I only worked the summer though, so never got my raise.

I may have posted this before. The electrical apprenticeship is 4 years of time with 4 sessions of 8 or 10 weeks of trade school during that time. The most dangerous time for my apprentices was always when they came back from their first session at trade school. They came back thinking they actually knew everything and would make more mistakes then when they left for school. We would keep an extra eye on them for the first month or two and remind them they still had 3 more years before they became a journeyman. The trades like all careers are now a life long learning situation and even more so now then ever before. The constant changing of building codes, plumbing and electrical codes. New technologies constantly hitting the industry most of what you learned in trade school is obsolete within 5 or 10 years. By the time a course is prepared and readily available you have already learned it on site from the manufacturers rep.