would you visit a linear city in Saudi Arabia

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November 9th, 2022 at 11:35:28 PM permalink
Pacomartin
Member since: Oct 24, 2012
Threads: 1068
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Saudi Arabia (population 35 million ) is building a linear city in the desert anchored in the Arabian Gulf on one end and with an airport on the other end, It will be 200 yards wide and 110 miles long with no streets. It will be as tall as the Empire State Building with a single maglev train running the length with speeds in excess of 350 mph. The full population will be 9 million and it will be designed so that all your basic needs will be within a 5 minute walk of your home. The density will be the highest in the world (9 to 10 times the density of Manhattan), and it will cost $1 trillion to build.

In 1971 Robert Silverberg (still alive at age 87) wrote a novel is set on Earth in the year 2381 called "The World Inside", when the population of the planet has reached 75 billion people. Population growth has skyrocketed due to a quasi-religious belief in human reproduction as the highest possible good. Most of the action occurs in a massive three-kilometer-high city tower called Urban Monad 116. War, starvation, crime and birth control have been eliminated. Life is now totally fulfilled and sustained within Urban Monads (Urbmons), mammoth thousand-floor skyscrapers arranged in "constellations", where the shadow of one building does not fall upon another. An Urbmon is divided into 25 self-contained "cities" of 40 floors each, in ascending order of status, with administrators occupying the highest level. Each building can hold approximately 800,000 people, with excess population totalling three billion a year transferred to new Urbmons, which are continually under construction.

The Saudi Arabian city bears some resemblence to Robert Silverburg's society in that private vehicles were forbidden and all transportation was walking or elevators or trains. In Robert Silverburg's imaginary society, however, there is no travel since all the buildings look identical. Sex and pregnancy is the major preocuppation of most people.

The projects are getting bigger. The pyramid over Tokyo Bay proposed 18 years ago was only for 1 million people.


The inverted pyramid in the Center of Mexico City would have a population of only 100,000.

Would you ever travel to "The Line"?
November 10th, 2022 at 2:57:55 AM permalink
AZDuffman
Member since: Oct 24, 2012
Threads: 135
Posts: 18136
I have heard about this project and classify it as crazy. KSA is trying to plan for life after oil wealth. Then it plans this. Their first problem of course is humans are not meant to live in the desert in any kind of numbers. The second is this kind of thing rarely works. There is no reason for this city to exist. It is fairly well known that few Saudis actually work. They do a few hours of pretend government work, but for most of them that is it. What will the economy of this place be based on? Collecting annuities from a century of oil wealth?

Lots of 0s going to go down the drain.
The President is a fink.
November 10th, 2022 at 5:33:02 AM permalink
Gandler
Member since: Aug 15, 2019
Threads: 27
Posts: 4236
I would never visit any City in Saudi Arabia, especially under the current regime.

But, this City is monumentally stupid for a whole host of reasons. I suspect that this project will never complete, it will just be one of those perpetual projects that they claim to slowly be working on to drum up publicity (and distract from other issues), I mean there are commercials in the U.S. for this, it's clearly something that they are trying to push in the mainstream. I just don't think it will ever complete (it will probably end up turning into a tiny segment near the sea as a tourist attraction with the rest -pending construction- for eternity-).

They are claiming they are trying to future proof themselves for when oil revenue runs out, but I don't see how this will be profitable, and it will just drain their cash on hand (it's an absurd amount of money just in construction, then what the annual maintenance fees are for such a large structure built over sand dunes I can only imagine.....) Putting my feelings for Saudi Arabia aside, just on the merits of the projects, I honestly see none.

(Who would want to live in a large line on the desert, isolated from the nearest real city, where you cannot even drink, and forget clubs, and most activities young people enjoy etc.... you'll be stuck in an isolated community where you can't even go outside, and there is nothing to do inside, it would be like living on Mars..... I don't know what rich tech billionaires they think are going to move there and "invest in living here", but I would be beyond shocked if any do..... I would not move there if there if they paid me a billion dollars -and that is not hyperbole-....)
November 10th, 2022 at 5:49:07 AM permalink
AZDuffman
Member since: Oct 24, 2012
Threads: 135
Posts: 18136
Quote: Gandler


(Who would want to live in a large line on the desert, isolated from the nearest real city, where you cannot even drink, and forget clubs, and most activities young people enjoy etc.... you'll be stuck in an isolated community where you can't even go outside, and there is nothing to do inside, it would be like living on Mars..... I don't know what rich tech billionaires they think are going to move there and "invest in living here", but I would be beyond shocked if any do..... I would not move there if there if they paid me a billion dollars -and that is not hyperbole-....)


People already live like this, they are called "HOAs" and surprisingly many choose it.
The President is a fink.
November 10th, 2022 at 8:38:36 AM permalink
Pacomartin
Member since: Oct 24, 2012
Threads: 1068
Posts: 12569
Quote: Gandler
But, this City is monumentally stupid for a whole host of reasons. I suspect that this project will never complete, it will just be one of those perpetual projects that they claim to slowly be working on to drum up publicity (and distract from other issues), I mean there are commercials in the U.S. for this, it's clearly something that they are trying to push in the mainstream.


Since it is a city without cars the high speed train must work and the airpor must work even if it is home for 90,000 people (1% of the planned 9 million).

Periodically someone gets the idea of starting an infrastructure project in a rural area, a jungle or a desert. In the US the idea comes up most often about airports. In the 1970s planners decided that it was stupid to have major transfer hubs near major cities. If ou flew to Chicago airport you were supposed to be visiting Chicago, not changing planes for another destination. So they conceived of large airports in rural areas where there sole purpose was to function as transfer points. Land was cheap and there was no problem with noise issues. Needless to say the idea never took off.

Las Vegas is possibly one of the most successful infrastructure projects in a rural area.

Brasilia, the capital of Brazil was Founded 21 April 1960 and now has a population of 3 million in the urban area. Of course, the country of Brazil had a population of 70 million in 1960 and is currently 214 million.

The Saudi Arabia population is currently 35 million but it will be ~45 million in 2050. That is 10 million, eerily close to the projected population of The Line (9 million). I suspect that The Line will become a center for immigration for people who work on projects that keep Saudi Arabia rich, but it won't attract tourists, or Saudis.
November 10th, 2022 at 9:01:41 AM permalink
Gandler
Member since: Aug 15, 2019
Threads: 27
Posts: 4236
Quote: Pacomartin
Since it is a city without cars the high speed train must work and the airpor must work even if it is home for 90,000 people (1% of the planned 9 million).

Periodically someone gets the idea of starting an infrastructure project in a rural area, a jungle or a desert. In the US the idea comes up most often about airports. In the 1970s planners decided that it was stupid to have major transfer hubs near major cities. If ou flew to Chicago airport you were supposed to be visiting Chicago, not changing planes for another destination. So they conceived of large airports in rural areas where there sole purpose was to function as transfer points. Land was cheap and there was no problem with noise issues. Needless to say the idea never took off.

Las Vegas is possibly one of the most successful infrastructure projects in a rural area.

Brasilia, the capital of Brazil was Founded 21 April 1960 and now has a population of 3 million in the urban area. Of course, the country of Brazil had a population of 70 million in 1960 and is currently 214 million.

The Saudi Arabia population is currently 35 million but it will be ~45 million in 2050. That is 10 million, eerily close to the projected population of The Line (9 million). I suspect that The Line will become a center for immigration for people who work on projects that keep Saudi Arabia rich, but it won't attract tourists, or Saudis.


Las Vegas was able to draw people in because of sin (gambling, drinking, adult activities that at the time could not be done anywhere else). Saudi Arabia has no unique draws (in fact its about as polar opposite to Vegas as you can get).

Las Vegas grew organically from a small mining town, there was not some prince who designed it from nothing and decided that there should be 9 million people living in a single building in the desert.

I think it's a moot point, because it will never be completed, I stand by that this is a perpetual PR project to keep people talking. In some ways very Elon Musk like (claiming something is only a couple years away every year to keep hype and distract off of issues, they even have the fancy 3d rendering to go with it, lots of similarities)...
November 10th, 2022 at 9:04:10 AM permalink
Gandler
Member since: Aug 15, 2019
Threads: 27
Posts: 4236
Quote: AZDuffman
People already live like this, they are called "HOAs" and surprisingly many choose it.


That is not the same at all, HOAs can't restrict personal choices, they can restrict alcohol in common areas, but they can't really regulate your personal activities in your home or condo (the ability to restrict smoking is a gray area for condos and it varies by State since there are filtration concerns in a shared building).
November 10th, 2022 at 9:13:36 AM permalink
AZDuffman
Member since: Oct 24, 2012
Threads: 135
Posts: 18136
Quote: Gandler
That is not the same at all, HOAs can't restrict personal choices, they can restrict alcohol in common areas, but they can't really regulate your personal activities in your home or condo (the ability to restrict smoking is a gray area for condos and it varies by State since there are filtration concerns in a shared building).


Sure they can, they have all kinds of rules. Heck I saw one "horror story" where the HOA fined the people for having one of those plastic kids pools in their driveway for the kids as an "unapproved pool." There was one that tried to make people leave their garages open all day to "prove" nobody was living in the garage. They can restrict what you can have on your porch. I have seen stories of them trying to fine people for changing a tire or jump-starting a car in their driveway.

I will hazard a guess and say that you appear to be the kind of person who likes the restrictions in a HOA.
The President is a fink.
November 10th, 2022 at 12:04:42 PM permalink
Gandler
Member since: Aug 15, 2019
Threads: 27
Posts: 4236
Quote: AZDuffman
Sure they can, they have all kinds of rules. Heck I saw one "horror story" where the HOA fined the people for having one of those plastic kids pools in their driveway for the kids as an "unapproved pool." There was one that tried to make people leave their garages open all day to "prove" nobody was living in the garage. They can restrict what you can have on your porch. I have seen stories of them trying to fine people for changing a tire or jump-starting a car in their driveway.

I will hazard a guess and say that you appear to be the kind of person who likes the restrictions in a HOA.


That is very different, HOAs control what is outside and publicly visible. That is very different than saying you can't drink or smoke in your house or have unmarried women visit your house alone etc....

As for if I like HOA restrictions my answer is the same as if I like laws. Some are good, some are critical, some are dumb. But, in HOAs every resident has a vote on the community bylaws (unless it is a developer controlled HOA which have been becoming more common, and I have some issues with, but you know what you are getting into if you buy such a place). In general HOAs are another layer to keep a neighborhood looking uniform.

HOAs do not control behavior inside your home. And, even the most corrupt and overbearing HOA has nothing on Saudi Arabia.
November 10th, 2022 at 12:18:41 PM permalink
AZDuffman
Member since: Oct 24, 2012
Threads: 135
Posts: 18136
Quote: Gandler
That is very different, HOAs control what is outside and publicly visible. That is very different than saying you can't drink or smoke in your house or have unmarried women visit your house alone etc....

As for if I like HOA restrictions my answer is the same as if I like laws. Some are good, some are critical, some are dumb. But, in HOAs every resident has a vote on the community bylaws (unless it is a developer controlled HOA which have been becoming more common, and I have some issues with, but you know what you are getting into if you buy such a place). In general HOAs are another layer to keep a neighborhood looking uniform.

HOAs do not control behavior inside your home. And, even the most corrupt and overbearing HOA has nothing on Saudi Arabia.


First, the point is the same kind of restrictions. Second, you missed the first point. HOA's are another layer of GOVERNMENT. The people who like them say, "We do not have enough federal rules, not enough state rules, not enough county rules, not enough local rules, I WANT MORE RULES!"

What is so great about "looking uniform" I have no idea. HOA neighborhoods look so artificial to me that I cannot understand people liking paying someone to fine you if you do not do what they say to do.
The President is a fink.
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