Closing the border won't stop fentanyl

Quote: rxwine

If you were entering any port into the US along the entire coastline, not just Southern area, how would you get drugs in?

I'd drop them overboard before even landing in port, anchored in diveable water with coordinates for any of numerous American pleasure boats to pick up at their leisure. I don't see any reasonable method of stopping small compact loads with massive amounts of valuable cargo that can be done with something like fentanyl. Probably happens here in Florida all the time.

The idea that we're doing anything but creating false representation of doing anything really useful is a farce. They can afford to lose shipments just to create distractions to take up enforcement staff.

The only way we are going to address this problem is from the inside of the border

Oh it does, I am sure the Coast Guard probably seizes more drugs than border patrol.

And, that has long been a method for illicit activity, even during prohibition, ships would anchor just outside of territorial waters and the ships would be a floating distillery, and people would just boat out to them and buy their load.

But, there are chokepoints that are easier to monitor than others. We know a lot of drugs come over at specific points on the Southern border, these *should* be easy to control (it's hard to move quickly through the desert and mountains).

https://www.cbp.gov/newsroom/stats/drug-seizure-statistics
(However, this is very misleading because they are charted by pounds seized, so of course heavier drugs like marijuana are going to skew up the stats, and drugs that weigh virtually nothing like fentanyl look very low). For example, almost nothing is seized at the northern border by Customs/BP except marijuana (and I would hazard a guess that a lot of this is Canadians stupidly trying to bring recreational or medical weed over the border without knowing the laws based on the amounts, I don't think there is a mass import of weed from Canada for dealing purposes). The Souther Border is simply where drugs come in (specifically hard drugs, even putting aside weed).
It seems like one of the largest problems at the Northern border is intellectual property rights violations (which can be anything from unlicensed DVDs to counterfeit luxury goods).

Ideally yes, people would just stop using drugs. But, stopping the supply also helps. Just like yes it would be best if people did not commit crimes, but focusing police on the most troubled neighborhoods catches the most criminals.

Quote: kenarman

People willing to die in the fight for freedom from government control and censorship. In the US you call them down, in Iran you call them heroes.

I don't think you have the foggiest idea about the freedom that I experience. What govt control and censorship???? I can read whatever I want. If I choose to read about the Hunter laptop nothingburger, I can go to Breibart.
Nobody forced a vaccine or mask on me. I did it willingly listening to the Medical community and our own Dr Soopoo. I wore a mask today at the grocery store after reading about Petro's bout with covid. Would have wore it anyway just to be safe.
I'm the definition of living in a free country. I live where I want which is everywhere and try to see everything.
The only thing the govt is preventing me from seeing or doing is the National Naval Aviation Museum. Still closed due to covid because it's on a base.
That's it
Other then that I have total freedom and can read whatever I want.

Quote: rxwine

One kilogram of fentanyl has the potential to kill 500,000 people.

If that is the case I would like to order about 400kgs of it to get rid of all the morons in this country.

Quote: rxwine

I'd drop them overboard before even landing in port, anchored in diveable water with coordinates for any of numerous American pleasure boats to pick up at their leisure. I don't see any reasonable method of stopping small compact loads with massive amounts of valuable cargo that can be done with something like fentanyl. Probably happens here in Florida all the time.

I see two issues here. One is they will not stay in place. While you can bury several barrels of money in the New Mexico desert and save the coordinates on lottery tickets, if you drop overboard the current will move the package. The wake of the ship will move it, possibly even destroy it unless you get it way off board.

Second, you need a lot of people in on this. Probably at least two officers on the ship. You have to get it thru whatever security is on the docks.

I do not see the "anchoring" idea as viable. To do this you would need to be fairly far offshore. Meaning hundreds of feet of line for the anchor. There are too many people watching in the harbor. It falls under the old adage of "if you think you have a good way to smuggle goods it has been tried before already."

Quote: kenarman

Do you think the push to legalize opiates will solve the problem RX. The results in the places that have done it seem a little inconclusive to me.

Legalized would help. I would use the "behind the counter" system we use for psuedo here. This is the thing, lots of people are in chronic pain here. Famous cases include Favre and Limbaugh. We give people a bottle then cut them off, but the pain is still there.

Now, the problem is the people who just pop the pills to get high. Which is why I suggest the "behind the counter" model. Canada uses that to control ACC and I guess a few other things. I should not have to beg for pills when my kidney stones act up.

Meanwhile the dirty little secret is all the ODs feed the organ transplant system far more than you can imagine, so do not expect real progress.

Quote: AZDuffman

Legalized would help. I would use the "behind the counter" system we use for psuedo here. This is the thing, lots of people are in chronic pain here. Famous cases include Favre and Limbaugh. We give people a bottle then cut them off, but the pain is still there.

Now, the problem is the people who just pop the pills to get high. Which is why I suggest the "behind the counter" model. Canada uses that to control ACC and I guess a few other things. I should not have to beg for pills when my kidney stones act up.

Meanwhile the dirty little secret is all the ODs feed the organ transplant system far more than you can imagine, so do not expect real progress.

I had my left kidney removed in 1980. Surprisingly I have not had any renal issues since then.

Quote: AZDuffman

I see two issues here. One is they will not stay in place. While you can bury several barrels of money in the New Mexico desert and save the coordinates on lottery tickets, if you drop overboard the current will move the package. The wake of the ship will move it, possibly even destroy it unless you get it way off board.

Second, you need a lot of people in on this. Probably at least two officers on the ship. You have to get it thru whatever security is on the docks.

I do not see the "anchoring" idea as viable. To do this you would need to be fairly far offshore. Meaning hundreds of feet of line for the anchor. There are too many people watching in the harbor. It falls under the old adage of "if you think you have a good way to smuggle goods it has been tried before already."

All you need to do is drop it earlier and drag it on a short tow rope from farther out before you anchor it. As long you're not traveling like a speed boat, the wake will blend in. Depth is variable offshore. Sure you could drop it at a really deep point. No reason to. Equipment is within my budget much less a drug smuggling outfit. Even a sub $500 fish finder can go 400ft deep.

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And sheesh, these guys go to the trouble of digging hundreds of feet of tunnels under the border. And they make near surface homemade subs. This is easy by comparison.

Quote: rxwine

All you need to do is drop it earlier and drag it on a short tow rope from farther out before you anchor it. As long you're not traveling like a speed boat, the wake will blend in. Depth is variable offshore. Sure you could drop it at a really deep point. No reason to. Equipment is within my budget much less a drug smuggling outfit. Even a sub $500 fish finder can go 400ft deep.

Making the whole thing even more complex. It is probably way cheaper and easier to just use mules.

Quote: AZDuffman

Making the whole thing even more complex. It is probably way cheaper and easier to just use mules.

Probably just easier to hand out bribes.

Quote: DRich

Probably just easier to hand out bribes.

Quote:

Passapera worked as a Border Patrol agent for 10 years before he was arrested last summer.

Passapera received more than $1 million in cash bribes, the jury charged. He is accused of stashing the money at home and in a safe deposit box, and laundering the proceeds in jewelry, a luxury car and real estate.

Authorities say the human smuggling schemes consisted mostly of Passapera coordinating on a burner cellphone with other men to smuggle people up to the border and into his Border Patrol vehicle.

https://news.azpm.org/p/news-topical-border/2021/10/5/201396-border-patrol-agent-took-1m-in-bribes-to-smuggle-people-and-drugs-authorities-say/