Docu0gate I and II

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January 12th, 2023 at 5:21:04 PM permalink
missedhervee
Member since: Apr 23, 2021
Threads: 72
Posts: 2682
The statute reads in relevant part...

"(a) Whoever, being an officer, employee, contractor, or consultant of the United States, and, by virtue of his office, employment, position, or contract, becomes possessed of documents or materials containing classified information of the United States, knowingly removes such documents or materials without authority and with the intent to retain such documents or materials at an unauthorized location shall be fined under this title or imprisoned for not more than five years, or both."

Trump and Biden will NOT be convicted, I believe, because the gov't would have to show beyond a reasonable doubt that one or both of these clowns Knowingly removed them with the intention to retain them.

In other words, it ain't a strict liability situation wherein mere possession would be sufficient to convict.

Hell, a newly-minted lawyer fresh from passing the bar exam could win this one.
January 14th, 2023 at 9:53:18 AM permalink
missedhervee
Member since: Apr 23, 2021
Threads: 72
Posts: 2682
Biden seems equally culpable with Trump on this issue.

Both had classified documents in their homes.

Me, I'd throw them both in prison; hell, make them cell mates.
January 14th, 2023 at 12:44:28 PM permalink
SOOPOO
Member since: Feb 19, 2014
Threads: 22
Posts: 3620
Quote: missedhervee
Biden seems equally culpable with Trump on this issue.

Both had classified documents in their homes.

Me, I'd throw them both in prison; hell, make them cell mates.


It gets better. Apparently Hunter Biden had access to the garage! Get out the popcorn!

Biden is not equally culpable. He is willing to unequivocally return the stuff he shouldn’t have possession of. The other guy isn’t.
January 14th, 2023 at 1:08:39 PM permalink
Gandler
Member since: Aug 15, 2019
Threads: 24
Posts: 3687
Both are bad.

But, without looking up the law (you may know), I think there is more latitude for a sitting President to do what he wants with classified material (sadly Trump was right when he said the President is the ultimate authority on most classifications), versus a former President refusing to turn in items after leaving office.

You can't really convict Biden (because security violations would be a Federal charge and he can just pardon himself if it is in fact illegal for a sitting President), the closest to a conviction would be an impeachment (and subsequent Senate Conviction).

I can think of circumstances where a current (not former) President would have to have access to classified materials in his personal office, and I would guess there is a process in place (if this process was followed, I would guess not or else it would not be investigated).

I am not making excuses for Biden, if he was in the military he would have his clearance revoked and face charges. But, it legitimately does sound like he just threw classified files in his drawer without thinking. It does not sound like he was intending to steal classified documents and refuse to return them. This is more of a case of incompetence than abuse.

From what I read it was literal 4-5 instances of single pages that got jumbled into a bunch of other paperwork, it was not like he was walking out with boxes of classified documents.
January 15th, 2023 at 4:23:17 AM permalink
terapined
Member since: Aug 6, 2014
Threads: 55
Posts: 11120
Quote: Gandler


I am not making excuses for Biden, if he was in the military he would have his clearance revoked and face charges. But, it legitimately does sound like he just threw classified files in his drawer without thinking. It does not sound like he was intending to steal classified documents and refuse to return them. This is more of a case of incompetence than abuse.
.

I think it's incompetence as well.
I'm pretty shocked by this level of incompetence
Maybe time for President Harris
Not sure the right wants this
I think they just want to keep beating up Biden over this but not enough to usher in President Harris
No doubt Kamala is making sure she doesn't have anything top secret lying around unattended or at her house
Sometimes we live no particular way but our own - Grateful Dead "Eyes of the World"
January 15th, 2023 at 4:40:59 AM permalink
ams288
Member since: Apr 21, 2016
Threads: 25
Posts: 10499
Biden should just use the “Donny defense” and say he already declassified all the documents they’ve found. (Of course - Donny’s lawyers were never willing to state he actually declassified his docs under oath).
“A straight man will not go for kids.” - AZDuffman
January 15th, 2023 at 4:54:00 AM permalink
SOOPOO
Member since: Feb 19, 2014
Threads: 22
Posts: 3620
Quote: ams288
Biden should just use the “Donny defense” and say he already declassified all the documents they’ve found. (Of course - Donny’s lawyers were never willing to state he actually declassified his docs under oath).


You are aware that Biden didn’t have the authority to declassify these documents during the 4 years he illegally had them before he was sworn in as President….. oh, I guess you didn’t. Trying to DEFEND Biden is a failed plan. So all you get is a plan of trying to COMPARE to Trump.

‘I may have killed some guys, but I’m not as bad as Dahmer because I didn’t eat them….’
January 15th, 2023 at 5:08:11 AM permalink
terapined
Member since: Aug 6, 2014
Threads: 55
Posts: 11120
Quote: SOOPOO
You are aware that Biden didn’t have the authority to declassify these documents during the 4 years he illegally had them before he was sworn in as President….. oh, I guess you didn’t. Trying to DEFEND Biden is a failed plan. So all you get is a plan of trying to COMPARE to Trump.

‘I may have killed some guys, but I’m not as bad as Dahmer because I didn’t eat them….’

I'm not defending Biden
Many on the left are disturbed by this including me
I don't think any Trumpers were disturbed by Trump which is telling.
I call them like I see them and this disturbs me.
Bring on President Harris
It's about time we have our 3rd female President after Edith and Jill
Sometimes we live no particular way but our own - Grateful Dead "Eyes of the World"
January 15th, 2023 at 5:12:36 AM permalink
rxwine
Member since: Oct 24, 2012
Threads: 167
Posts: 15946
It's fairly easy to prove everyone is incompetent if you put people in a multitasking environment. That's why the actual misplacing of papers doesn't bother me.

Your attention span is limited. The invisible gorilla is the classic experiment.

It depends on several factors. How hard you're focusing on one task vs other things going on around you, and if you also need to process the information into memory such as active counting. Stress plays a factor and can completely throw you off as well. How many times you're interrupted unexpectedly definitely plays a factor into keeping track of what's going on around you. Picking up and setting down a piece of paper takes no real active consciousness. It's not hard set into your memory in the first place.
January 15th, 2023 at 6:25:11 AM permalink
ams288
Member since: Apr 21, 2016
Threads: 25
Posts: 10499
Quote: SOOPOO
You are aware that Biden didn’t have the authority to declassify these documents during the 4 years he illegally had them before he was sworn in as President….. oh, I guess you didn’t. Trying to DEFEND Biden is a failed plan. So all you get is a plan of trying to COMPARE to Trump.

‘I may have killed some guys, but I’m not as bad as Dahmer because I didn’t eat them….’


Yeah I’m aware.

Using the “Donny defense,” he can say he declassified them on day 1 of his presidency. And who can prove with certainty when the documents were placed where they were found?
“A straight man will not go for kids.” - AZDuffman
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