Appliances: We Are Getting Screwed

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January 26th, 2023 at 7:20:33 AM permalink
odiousgambit
Member since: Oct 28, 2012
Threads: 154
Posts: 5053
I talked about getting a new dishwasher at WoV. It was in response to the Wizard's thinking that dishwasher's are a scam, that they aren't much of a labor saver. But I also brought up how expensive they are now, and I was really surprised that this didn't get more of a conversation going on that. Maybe some people didn't believe me, even, but if you want installation and removal of the old one, you can easily spend $1000 or more getting that done, and you don’t have to live in NYC. Some models are $900+ just for the dishwasher, and the less expensive ones start at about $500 [buy this and it will tick your wife off, but you can spend less than a Grand that way, in total]. If you think the Wizard was even half right, think how I feel having to spend this much to replace a dishwasher that’s only about 7 years old.

I suppose I am suffering from the disconnection a guy gets when he reaches his late 60s, you just get in denial about what inflation does to the dollar and you think in terms of what it used to be worth. I think of $1000 as a considerable sum even though in my more lucid moments I know it’s not a lot of money anymore. Still, in America I say these costs are inflated even more by some of the things that are going on; we are really getting screwed! If you search to find out why appliances cost so much, you hear about how materials cost more now. But it’s not just that, it’s more than that, much more, and I don’t understand why we aren’t getting out the pitchforks and torches and demanding change!

I became acutely aware of the changes in the 90s, when I realized that the pace of having to replace appliances was increasing. This awareness was partly due to bad luck with dryers, which I was having to keep buying, initially without getting the extended warranties. It was a long-standing fact these longer warranties were not worth getting, but the dryers were conking out practically the day after the regular warranty expired. And often not working properly in the meantime: in particular they had started putting sensors in them to determine by humidity if the clothes were dry. These quit working properly right away, and service people seemed to be unaware what could be done. It was a miserable thing; I’m not sure they even use those sensors anymore. But in the meantime I was wising up.

Here’s what I think is going on today:

*Appliances are no longer made to last. It is absolutely a fact that they used to last longer, and the ‘experts’ don’t deny it. It is a very unhappy part of modern life to know that everything in your house is a ticking time bomb. Thanks a lot!

*Appliances cost less than the old ones that were made to last, at least if you use constant dollars. But the savings disappear if you constantly have to replace them! furthermore, the way they are going up now, I have to question if that is really true anymore!

*Appliances are now full of electronics and computers that make them even more unreliable. God help you if you have frequent power loss and consequent power surges. This definitely has fried some of my appliances, and the warranty people can’t fix it, in my experience. They’ve sometimes taken care of us and sometimes not so much… sometimes it was not in warranty.

*You have the cost now of getting the extended warranties, whereas it was always not recommended as worth it by the consumer advocates back when appliances were made to last . Well, you don’t have to get them today either. But good luck with that! especially now with all that vulnerable electronics.

*We are told we are saving money on energy. This is the biggest misrepresentation out there, as the manufacturing process uses an enormous amount of energy. To make things that don’t last? How does that save energy? I am here to testify it doesn’t save money when you have to keep replacing them either!

*check out the next links that delve into this. They cite these things but mostly they come around to listening to ‘experts’ who say ‘suck it up’. Thanks, experts! Thanks, journalists!

https://reviewed.usatoday.com/dishwashers/features/ask-the-experts-why-dont-new-home-appliances-last

https://www.delta-appliances.com/old-vs-modern-appliances/

https://www.energy.gov/eere/buildings/appliance-and-equipment-standards-program

Trump was my guy on this, but … https://gizmodo.com/joe-biden-is-losing-the-war-against-inefficient-applian-1848331841

Now to the most distressing aspect: check out the links that reveal part of what’ going on. Maybe some of the things above are just me being unrealistic. Maybe the manufacturers are more to blame for much of it. But the most avoidable of these increased costs are deep state regulations that push and push for more and more dubious energy efficiency and water use efficiency. Many politicians want to go further with these dubious regulations, and the push has in my opinion been one of the reasons for the acceleration in appliance costs. And, I have to think, unreliability and short lifetimes as well, since when manufacturers have to strain themselves to do these other things, it’s quite natural that reliability is going to suffer. Costs increase even more.

These links show what’s going on but don’t necessarily support my point of view.

https://www.utilitydive.com/news/dozens-of-lawmakers-press-biden-to-prioritize-appliance-efficiency-standard/618814/

https://gizmodo.com/joe-biden-is-losing-the-war-against-inefficient-applian-1848331841

Where is my pitchfork?
I'm Still Standing, Yeah, Yeah, Yeah [it's an old guy chant for me]
January 26th, 2023 at 7:35:59 AM permalink
kenarman
Member since: Oct 24, 2012
Threads: 14
Posts: 4470
Quote: odiousgambit
I talked about getting a new dishwasher at WoV. It was in response to the Wizard's thinking that dishwasher's are a scam, that they aren't much of a labor saver. But I also brought up how expensive they are now, and I was really surprised that this didn't get more of a conversation going on that. Maybe some people didn't believe me, even, but if you want installation and removal of the old one, you can easily spend $1000 or more getting that done, and you don’t have to live in NYC. Some models are $900+ just for the dishwasher, and the less expensive ones start at about $500 [buy this and it will tick your wife off, but you can spend less than a Grand that way, in total]. If you think the Wizard was even half right, think how I feel having to spend this much to replace a dishwasher that’s only about 7 years old.

I suppose I am suffering from the disconnection a guy gets when he reaches his late 60s, you just get in denial about what inflation does to the dollar and you think in terms of what it used to be worth. I think of $1000 as a considerable sum even though in my more lucid moments I know it’s not a lot of money anymore. Still, in America I say these costs are inflated even more by some of the things that are going on; we are really getting screwed! If you search to find out why appliances cost so much, you hear about how materials cost more now. But it’s not just that, it’s more than that, much more, and I don’t understand why we aren’t getting out the pitchforks and torches and demanding change!

I became acutely aware of the changes in the 90s, when I realized that the pace of having to replace appliances was increasing. This awareness was partly due to bad luck with dryers, which I was having to keep buying, initially without getting the extended warranties. It was a long-standing fact these longer warranties were not worth getting, but the dryers were conking out practically the day after the regular warranty expired. And often not working properly in the meantime: in particular they had started putting sensors in them to determine by humidity if the clothes were dry. These quit working properly right away, and service people seemed to be unaware what could be done. It was a miserable thing; I’m not sure they even use those sensors anymore. But in the meantime I was wising up.

Here’s what I think is going on today:

*Appliances are no longer made to last. It is absolutely a fact that they used to last longer, and the ‘experts’ don’t deny it. It is a very unhappy part of modern life to know that everything in your house is a ticking time bomb. Thanks a lot!

*Appliances cost less than the old ones that were made to last, at least if you use constant dollars. But the savings disappear if you constantly have to replace them! furthermore, the way they are going up now, I have to question if that is really true anymore!

*Appliances are now full of electronics and computers that make them even more unreliable. God help you if you have frequent power loss and consequent power surges. This definitely has fried some of my appliances, and the warranty people can’t fix it, in my experience. They’ve sometimes taken care of us and sometimes not so much… sometimes it was not in warranty.

*You have the cost now of getting the extended warranties, whereas it was always not recommended as worth it by the consumer advocates back when appliances were made to last . Well, you don’t have to get them today either. But good luck with that! especially now with all that vulnerable electronics.

*We are told we are saving money on energy. This is the biggest misrepresentation out there, as the manufacturing process uses an enormous amount of energy. To make things that don’t last? How does that save energy? I am here to testify it doesn’t save money when you have to keep replacing them either!

*check out the next links that delve into this. They cite these things but mostly they come around to listening to ‘experts’ who say ‘suck it up’. Thanks, experts! Thanks, journalists!

https://reviewed.usatoday.com/dishwashers/features/ask-the-experts-why-dont-new-home-appliances-last

https://www.delta-appliances.com/old-vs-modern-appliances/

https://www.energy.gov/eere/buildings/appliance-and-equipment-standards-program

Trump was my guy on this, but … https://gizmodo.com/joe-biden-is-losing-the-war-against-inefficient-applian-1848331841

Now to the most distressing aspect: check out the links that reveal part of what’ going on. Maybe some of the things above are just me being unrealistic. Maybe the manufacturers are more to blame for much of it. But the most avoidable of these increased costs are deep state regulations that push and push for more and more dubious energy efficiency and water use efficiency. Many politicians want to go further with these dubious regulations, and the push has in my opinion been one of the reasons for the acceleration in appliance costs. And, I have to think, unreliability and short lifetimes as well, since when manufacturers have to strain themselves to do these other things, it’s quite natural that reliability is going to suffer. Costs increase even more.

These links show what’s going on but don’t necessarily support my point of view.

https://www.utilitydive.com/news/dozens-of-lawmakers-press-biden-to-prioritize-appliance-efficiency-standard/618814/

https://gizmodo.com/joe-biden-is-losing-the-war-against-inefficient-applian-1848331841

Where is my pitchfork?



It has come to its natural conclusion and now includes the most expensive appliance you purchase. When the battery is gone on your electric vehicle it costs so much to replace it that your electric vehicle is now a throw away like the rest of your appliances. My appliances are all 35+ years old. They are not shiny and full of bells and whistles but they get the job done. Why would I replace them?
"but if you make yourselves sheep, the wolves will eat you." Benjamin Franklin
January 26th, 2023 at 7:39:28 AM permalink
terapined
Member since: Aug 6, 2014
Threads: 73
Posts: 11786
I'm overall against Dems and Biden on this
Let the free market determine what people buy
Sometimes we live no particular way but our own - Grateful Dead "Eyes of the World"
January 26th, 2023 at 8:59:38 AM permalink
missedhervee
Member since: Apr 23, 2021
Threads: 96
Posts: 3092
My buddy's oven failed about five years ago and he's too lame to get it fixed; simply adjusted to meal prep without one.

He's single (divorced) and without a woman in the kitchen he feels zero pressure to repair it.
January 26th, 2023 at 9:10:24 AM permalink
odiousgambit
Member since: Oct 28, 2012
Threads: 154
Posts: 5053
Quote: missedhervee
My buddy's oven failed about five years ago and he's too lame to get it fixed; simply adjusted to meal prep without one.

He's single (divorced) and without a woman in the kitchen he feels zero pressure to repair it.
no way an oven would ever fail in the old days, you could get one to go forever. Now, a power surge will fry all those electronics. Happened to me.
I'm Still Standing, Yeah, Yeah, Yeah [it's an old guy chant for me]
January 26th, 2023 at 11:29:12 AM permalink
rxwine
Member since: Oct 24, 2012
Threads: 188
Posts: 18629
I don't think enough reviews go beyond a year or so on follow-ups. A manufacturer who makes something last longer is likely going to have to justify a higher price for durable components compared to the cheap competitors selling at the same time. And they are going to need the data to prove it that it's worth the extra cost.
You believe in an invisible god, and dismiss people who say they are trans? Really?
January 26th, 2023 at 11:40:16 AM permalink
rxwine
Member since: Oct 24, 2012
Threads: 188
Posts: 18629
OTOH, I do remember they have testing labs, like for instance a machine that would keep stretching a rubber band until it breaks simulating hours, days, of usage.

You believe in an invisible god, and dismiss people who say they are trans? Really?
January 26th, 2023 at 11:51:11 AM permalink
terapined
Member since: Aug 6, 2014
Threads: 73
Posts: 11786
When I had a house
I rarely used the oven
I had a toaster oven that works great
Still have it
Now in my RV
Works great.
I do all my baking in this thing
Sometimes we live no particular way but our own - Grateful Dead "Eyes of the World"
January 26th, 2023 at 2:57:27 PM permalink
DRich
Member since: Oct 24, 2012
Threads: 51
Posts: 4941
Quote: terapined
When I had a house
I rarely used the oven
I had a toaster oven that works great
Still have it
Now in my RV
Works great.
I do all my baking in this thing


Ed, you might want to consider washing it, that is disgusting.
At my age a Life In Prison sentence is not much of a detrrent.
February 4th, 2023 at 3:04:44 AM permalink
odiousgambit
Member since: Oct 28, 2012
Threads: 154
Posts: 5053
Finally getting the dishwasher installed Monday. Does it seem to you that it took a long time? That is correct. Long story I might tell later. Lowes, for the record.

The salesman was very good in the charm requirement, and disarming when there's a problem. Competence, not so much. His training has him showing you the most expensive model first, which I guess you can't get too worked up about. It allowed me to know the location of that model. Having to make several trips to the store, I always checked it out

The $900+ model is replaced now by a $1349 one, marked on sale for $1099, and probably always sells for that. The 900+ one had some higher price it was never sold at too.

$1349 ................... think about that.

You'll want to get the extended warranty too, just under $200 as I recall. And it might last about 7 years. Quiet, though, I imagine.
I'm Still Standing, Yeah, Yeah, Yeah [it's an old guy chant for me]
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