Religious belief drops

Quote: Evenbob

The same people who say religious belief is a psychiatric illness will fight to the death over the same fact applying to gender confusion. Being confused over what gender you are is just as much a mental illness as religion is, unless you're a Libby of course. Just like religion, believe whatever you want to believe in private, just don't try to shove it down our throats that your God is the only God or that you were born a man but are now a woman. Save that crap for your shrink because we're sick of it.

Wrong.

I don't actually think men can become women, women can become men or anything along those lines. I'm simply not properly equipped nor am I in any such profession where I would treat these people, so as a result, it's only for me to treat them with respect. I don't see they are engaging in an action that is imminently harmful, so my calling them whatever they wish to be called does nothing to me and, I imagine, doesn't contribute negatively to them.

There is the gender/sex and whether or not they're the same thing question. I'm not qualified to speak on that and also don't care.

There's a lot of childhood indoctrination into religion, so perhaps that indoctrination and fervency creates mental illness rather than belief in God itself being a psychological disorder. I can certainly understand why people would want there to be a God as it would explain some stuff and wouldn't make life/humanity/existence all seem like purposeless endeavors in the cosmological sense, which they probably are.

For me, the dividing line on religion is if I ask someone, "Are you 100% positive that there is absolutely a God? Do you claim to know this as a matter of absolute and indisputable fact?"

If the answer is yes, then they are either lying, stupid or quite insane...or possibly any combination of the three.

Quote: AZDuffman

I kind of agree here. Transpeople are mentally ill by any reasonable standard. If a person is religious they are taught a few things while some differences have common threads. One is that there is a higher power than man. Another is you are who you are and need to accept that. Still another is that there are things we cannot change.

But in modern thought we are telling the transpeople that they can change their gender (true only if one does not believe in science) and all will be well. Or the woke crowd calling men "she" even though they know better. Enabling is never good for the person with a problem (more simple science) so the illness gets worse and worse.

Religion springs up in most all societies over history, so to call it a mental illness is a bit of a strange idea.

You call it enabling and I call its opposite, "Social ostracizing." It's kind of a pick your poison situation and I am not a mental health expert, so I'll err on the side of believing that people wish to be treated with respect.

Quote: rxwine

Trans people aren't passing laws in states against themselves. So you're the one for forcing people.

And you're a religious bigot against muslims from what you've said before. So that's religious bigotry.

You pretending science is your friend is hilarious every time you say it.

Quote: AZDuffman

Trans people are passing laws to force men to be allowed into women's sports, restrooms, and other places. So they, not the rest, are forcing.

I have stated my problems with islam. And it is backed up. You are anti-all religion (except islam?) so please do not lecture me.

Science is my friend. Junk science (like global warming) is just that, junk. You pretend to believe science when it suits you but ignore it when it does not. So again, no lectures from you.

Wild thought here, but do either of you think it's possible that both Christians and the Far Left have a great interest in controlling society?

Quote: Mission146

Wild thought here, but do either of you think it's possible that both Christians and the Far Left have a great interest in controlling society?

For example? (of the far left) Everything I support has a real effect on me, it's not individual freedom for someone. If I believed climate change wouldn't ever be detrimental to me or anyone I care about, I'd not care if anyone else supported it or not. I don't care about gun use, except people keep misusing them, an bullets don't hit someone intended all the time.

But you probably see where if becomes problematic. If someone thinks more gun freedom for everyone makes it better for all. I don't think that.

Quote: rxwine

For example? (of the far left) Everything I support has a real effect on me, it's not individual freedom for someone. If I believed climate change wouldn't ever be detrimental to me or anyone I care about, I'd not care if anyone else supported it or not. I don't care about gun use, except people keep misusing them, an bullets don't hit someone intended all the time.

But you probably see where if becomes problematic. If someone thinks more gun freedom for everyone makes it better for all. I don't think that.

I don't necessarily mean through the Government, though it can sometimes be that.

In both instances, the far reaches of both political parties tend to consist of individuals who have a highly dogmatic view of the way things should be. Also, while the concept of, 'Cancellation,' is not a terribly unique one, and one that Conservatives now seem to be adopting (though, socially, churches have done this forever) and is also not a function of Government---the end goal is still to put pressure on people to conform to their standards or be ostracized. That's literally the same thing churches have been doing for Millennia, though churches would sometimes also simply kill dissenters.

Anyway, when you look at Freedom of Speech, I don't think trans people can go around suggesting that not playing the pronoun game should ever constitute any kind of hate crime. I was born with a twig and berries, plan to keep them and am heterosexual, but if you want to call me a woman in all of our in-person interactions, there's certainly nothing I can do to stop you, at least, not legally speaking.

I also don't think that anyone has the right to dictate to another, via any means, what the other person is supposed to believe about something. If someone believes sex is gender and is immutable, then why should anyone care that they believe that? Why should they have to change their beliefs on that? As long as they don't actively discriminate against a person, in the legal sense of the word, who happens to believe/live the opposite, then it really shouldn't matter.

In any event, they simply have to accept that some denominations of Christianity are never going to see things their way---which is okay. They have to accept that some people will always see (if a transwoman, for example) them as a guy, which is fine. The social left doesn't get to dictate what other people think or how other people are supposed to speak and trying to do so is not liberal whatsoever.

Imagine this: If I have to pick that either God exists, or alternatively, that a guy can get surgically implanted/hormonally stimulated tits and have his cock-a-doodle-do cut off and is, therefore, actually a woman who must be acknowledged as a woman (which I would do out of basic human respect) by one and all---and I must pick one and only one.

Jesus. That's a really tough choice. Gun to my head, I'd better get reacquainted with The Bible, you know?

Quote: Mission146

I
Imagine this: If I have to pick that either God exists, or alternatively, that a guy can get surgically implanted/hormonally stimulated tits and have his cock-a-doodle-do cut off and is, therefore, actually a woman who must be acknowledged as a woman (which I would do out of basic human respect) by one and all---and I must pick one and only one.

Jesus. That's a really tough choice. Gun to my head, I'd better get reacquainted with The Bible, you know?

Did you do a DNA test on every woman you thought was attractive or dated? Supposedly some men have been fooled.

A person sitting at the table with a two people, will have a completely different reaction if he thinks the person he's been attracted to all night is touching his leg under the table or playing footsie? But it may not be the person he thought it was.

I don't know if I'm trying to prove anything, except people who say "things must absolutely be this way" should be questioned on that demand.

I'm also not suggesting that sex and gender aren't different.

I don't know and am not qualified to say. Even more importantly, I don't actually care. I only care to the extent that I find it flatly insane that subject matter relating to, legitimately, 0.5%-ish of the population has absolutely dominated the political space ever since we got out of Covid.

Again, I'm not counting that, "Non-binary," nonsense as, "Being non-binary," doesn't actually convey anything definitive to me, and accordingly, I consider it nonsense. That's like if someone asked me, "What is your profession?," and I responded, "Well, I'm NOT an oceanographer."

"Um...okay, but that doesn't actually convey what you are."

I interpret it to mean, "I don't conform to the gender binary because I am white, relatively young, female from the suburbs and it's like, REALLY, difficult to justify publicly claiming to be a victim of something if I don't select this option. Also, straight people, gross---even though I have a vagina and only ^%*& people with penises, exclusively."

So, let's call it 0.5% of the population. Socially speaking, in a normal universe, these people do NOT matter very much. They simply don't. Unfortunately, we now live in a society in which it is en vogue to be as confrontational, and dogmatic, as possible...so now we have this conversation.

I think the only discussion that actually needs to be had is bathrooms, locker rooms and sports. I've offered my opinion on all of these things already, but will reiterate, if necessary.

I don't think prisons are at issue because, for one, you're in a prison. Secondly, I would just make a blanket statement that you go to the prison that corresponds with your birth sex, or alternatively, you can sign this document that you opt to spend your entire sentence in solitary confinement.

Quote: rxwine

Did you do a DNA test on every woman you thought was attractive or dated? Supposedly some men have been fooled.

A person sitting at the table with a two people, will have a completely different reaction if he thinks the person he's been attracted to all night is touching his leg under the table or playing footsie? But it may not be the person he thought it was.

I don't know if I'm trying to prove anything, except people who say "things must absolutely be this way" should be questioned on that demand.

I haven't done a DNA test on anyone. I have not dated anyone transexual. I don't know that everyone I've ever found attractive was born a woman, though I suspect that they were. On the other hand, if they were that, "Passable," I suppose I wouldn't even have suspected they were transgender, right?

So, attracted---I guess I don't know. That everyone I dated was sexually (assuming sex and gender are two different things) female---I am 100% certain.

If someone plays footsie with me under a table, then I am immediately no longer attracted to that person regardless of their gender.

I agree with your last statement. I don't even have a problem if people want to say sex is separate from gender. I'm not a psychologist, sociologist or any other kind of ologist. Also, I truly don't care if they are the same thing, or not, as that doesn't pragmatically change anything for me.

Concerning the prison situation. If we knew that either prisoner could make the other one pregnant, it should be taken into consideration that this person won't be able to stay in the open prison population. No need to address male or female at all. Men get raped in prison. Women get raped in prison. Stronger person may rape the weaker person. That's a problem in all prison situations. Whatever we do about the stronger men in men's prisons is what we should do about the stronger person in women's prison. I don't think we do all that much to save men from stronger men.

Anyway, prison is a place you should avoid if you care about what kind of bad things that might happen to you.