Can children be groomed to be gay or Trans

Quote: odiousgambit

this is a familiar scenario to people of my age: the tomboy that grows out of it

This also is an ancient age you've shown here: Brand and Jolie way, way, way, waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay back: the 2000s , Shiloh being born in 2006. That far back maybe Obama and Hillary were still against gay marriage!

today the couple would face pressure to start transitioning their daughter, and that would go, hormone blockers, male hormones, top surgery, and then bottom surgery. I think it goes like that, I'm happy to say I'm no expert on the matter.

If they didn't go along with it, they'd face ostracization they probably couldn't handle. That they wanted to present Shiloh in that way back in that ancient day, pretty much shows that. God knows what pressure Megan Fox got, first to quiz the children about what sex they related to in the first place, instead of telling them they were boys and leaving it at that. If one of them kept insisting they were of the other sex [without outside influence] then she would know she's got herself a case of true gender dysphoria. I certainly am not buying the idea that all three of those boys had that dysphoria naturally.

Quote: Mission146

Quote: odiousgambit

this is a familiar scenario to people of my age: the tomboy that grows out of it

This also is an ancient age you've shown here: Brand and Jolie way, way, way, waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay back: the 2000s , Shiloh being born in 2006. That far back maybe Obama and Hillary were still against gay marriage!

today the couple would face pressure to start transitioning their daughter, and that would go, hormone blockers, male hormones, top surgery, and then bottom surgery. I think it goes like that, I'm happy to say I'm no expert on the matter.

If they didn't go along with it, they'd face ostracization they probably couldn't handle. That they wanted to present Shiloh in that way back in that ancient day, pretty much shows that. God knows what pressure Megan Fox got, first to quiz the children about what sex they related to in the first place, instead of telling them they were boys and leaving it at that. If one of them kept insisting they were of the other sex [without outside influence] then she would know she's got herself a case of true gender dysphoria. I certainly am not buying the idea that all three of those boys had that dysphoria naturally.

That's an excellent example of why I am opposed to allowing genital mutilation surgeries on children. It's for the parents to allow kids to express themselves in whatever way the children wish, if they choose to, and sometimes those kids will, 'Grow out of it,' and on other occasions, the children may choose to get that sort of surgery when they are, at least in theory, old enough to be making that decision for themselves.

Quote: rxwine

I just listened yesterday to a interview on NPR with a person who was asked if she had been made to wait what she would have done. She said she would have committed suicide.

Now it's not proof that someone would, but on the other hand, I don't rule out possibility that it happens.

Quote: Mission146

Both are permanent decisions, but at least suicide is someone's own choice.

Quote: rxwine

She would have committed suicide as a child. So, you think she should get transition surgery without consulting her parents. That would have been the same personal choice at that age. I don't think that's what you meant to imply.

Quote: Mission146

I've already said that I would restrict the doctors, in this country, from performing such a surgery on someone under a certain age. I also don't think she would have committed suicide as a child; that seems very calculated and motivated by the desired social outcome.

Quote:

If parents wanted to travel to a different country to subject their minor to that surgery, provided it was legal in that country, I wouldn't do anything to stop them.

Quote: rxwine

You also seem to have a desired social outcome. Are you disqualifying yourself also?

You're saying you know what's best for EVERY SINGLE child/parent/doctor decision usually made over a year or more before anything even commences in the USA,

I'm saying I don't have that much omniscience to say that. Given a much more random haphazard medical decision I might take your position. But IMO, this doesn't qualify.

Quote: rxwine

You also seem to have a desired social outcome. Are you disqualifying yourself also?



You're saying you know what's best for EVERY SINGLE child/parent/doctor decision usually made over a year or more before anything even commences in the USA,

I'm saying I don't have that much omniscience to say that. Given a much more random haphazard medical decision I might take your position. But IMO, this doesn't qualify.

Quote: rxwine

You also seem to have a desired social outcome. Are you disqualifying yourself also?



You're saying you know what's best for EVERY SINGLE child/parent/doctor decision usually made over a year or more before anything even commences in the USA,

I'm saying I don't have that much omniscience to say that. Given a much more random haphazard medical decision I might take your position. But IMO, this doesn't qualify.

Quote: Mission146

Disqualifying myself from what? This is a forum, if you hadn't noticed in your 16,809 posts here. We talk about things. My desired social outcome is for children not to have their genitals mutilated before they are old enough to make that decision for themselves; you believe the opposite of that, evidently, and think it's a greater social good for parents to people able to make this decision for...I don't know how young. I don't think you've specifically given an age.

The operative word in your other comments is *usually*. If you are suggesting that children should not be ushered into the doctor and put under the knife, same day, then you also have a way you think things should be, so you should have no objection to me sharing my ideas.

Besides, I have no power or authority to effectuate anything, one way or another. I also think that you think I care more than I actually do. Individual freedom of choice, to the greatest extent practicable, just happens to be a principle I hold. There is no principle higher than that, for me. I'd be lying if I said I had any deep concern what happens to them.