When is it self-defense?

I would go on to say, I see a difference once you're on your own property. If stand your ground applied strictly to your home area, I could support it. To me, it seems reasonable that you have no obligation to flee your own home even if it is more dangerous to hang around. But it's been taken outside that context to everywhere in a lot of cases.

Related: Sorry, the Zimmerman Case Still Has Nothing to Do With 'Stand Your Ground'

You're making an assumption I was using the Zimmerman case perhaps?

People acting like cops, who aren't cops. Now that I have a problem with. It's goes beyond self-defense.

Quote: rxwine

Millions of years of Evolution.

Sorry, but that's a non-sequitur.

Quote: Evenbob

Self defense is when you truly think you'll die
or be really hurt and you defend yourself by
any means necessary. Right way or overkill,
in your mind its you or them.

True, but my understanding is it has to considered reasonable actions by others and if it's not, you fail on the self-defense argument and become a murderer or a lesser charge. Maybe mental illness or mental disability can save you and maybe it cannot. It's why the lawyers fight over what is reasonable and the better lawyers do anything they have to do. This is what separates justice from some and not others. It's like having to pay a cover charge to get into the not guilty club.

I don't know for sure, but mathematically there should be a better survival rate for fleeing or every animal in the wild would fight every time. Even the king of the jungle gets dethroned eventually.

Quote: Fleastiff

Funniest cartoon I ever saw was Youth Walks Along Sidewalk Carrying Humungous GhettoBlaster at Top Volume. As he approaches Little Old Lady on Sidewalk, She pulls gun, plugs him dead center and quietly plods onward in silence.

Really? That's the funniest cartoon you ever saw? Please post it, must be HI-larious.

Quote: Nareed

Sorry, but that's a non-sequitur.

Hah. I like oneNicklemiracle's' response, which I think is related, but will add to that, that I will specify retreat in humans, as all evasive behavior rather than simply running. The ability to assume danger and plan beforehand for instance so you won't be in danger in the first place. Being able to recognize people getting angry. Knowing that a nest big enough to stand in generally might have an animal big enough to eat you. All these things with brain development would aid in "retreat" success.

So, not just in the moment itself, no.

While I'm not sure what really passes on in humans as evolutionary success, animals (like birds) seem to be able to carry a wide variety of behaviors, as seems no way they are actually taught. But success lives, and failure dies, and all that.

Quote: rxwine

All these things with brain development would aid in "retreat" success.

So if someone has a gun or knife out and is threatening to kill you, you'd know exactly what to do because of your millions of years of evolution?

I still see a non-sequitur.

Quote: Nareed

So if someone has a gun or knife out and is threatening to kill you, you'd know exactly what to do because of your millions of years of evolution?

No, because evolutionary benefits aren't conferred by the test of one individual. But they're still conferred. Your white tiger in a green jungle generally is conferred less benefits. (unless you consider he ends up at the Mirage )

Also, I hadn't considered a point before the Zim/Martin case. But if you own a gun, and if it emboldens you to go into situations you might normally avoided, you're actually starting to negate the benefit of it. Zimmerman apparently bought his to become a para-policeman, not just self-defense. All teens with a temper were potentially dead in his neighborhood, whether angry thieves or just emotionally volatile.