When is it self-defense?

Quote: rxwine

No, because evolutionary benefits aren't conferred by the test of one individual.

But we are talking about one individual and modern weapons.

Let's get back to your basic point: an untrained individual, armed, does not know how to sort out every situation. He might end up shooting innocent victims, or shooting an agressor prematurely or mistakenly. That's all so.

But in the same way, running away from such situations is not as simple as turning and running. an untrained individual does not know how to sort out the situation in order to know ehere safety is to be found, or even whether safety can be found.

Obviously if the law gives you the right to kill witnesses, there is an inherent flaw in the law and it has become corrupt. I had thought this was just political and avoided it, but now I see it just denies basic human rights to rationally justify this line of thought. I think if you're dumb enough to to not see the better way out, you should be punished and put in jail.

Quote: rxwine

But if you own a gun, and if it emboldens you to go into situations you might normally avoided, you're actually starting to negate the benefit of it.

No offense intended...but due to our history of communication, I have pigeonholed you not as "anti", but leaning toward. Too bad. I'd be glad to have your brand of common sense on the gunner side.

I'd also like to expand on my pro-SYG stance...

Quite simply, I want the law on my side. I'm not sure if every one here has been in a snap-decision scenario, but it's very much an automated process. Near miss car accidents, decisions to dive or let up when chasing a fly ball, decisions to attack or defend against an oncoming opponent in hockey or a fight, all these things aren't really thought out, rather they're sort of "sensed". It's all reactionary.

Evolution was mentioned, and I strongly believe most people are hardwired to flee. I know I would. But a shooting scenario would be the height of "reactionary decisions" and I'd hate to go to jail over a law when my actions were just. If I heard shots, I'd certainly be simultaneously heading for the exit while drawing my pistol. Knowing there's a threat, a threat that could harm me or my loved ones, would have me keyed up and ready for action. If I acquired the threat, the last thing I'm going to do is Stop and Think. Thinking as it applies to self defense is something you do at home in a chair, at the range with your piece, in the office at the computer, or in the car on your commute. Combat does not mix with think. Combat is when you act, and you act based on all the thinking you should have done previously.

I will always rely on my feet to carry me to safety first. But if I'm in the position to guarantee my safety, if I see my threat and have a clear shot, I want to take it now. I don't want to have to turn my back on him and run, or wait until I AM the target and then try to defend. If the worst happens and I have to take a life, I want to see the dead of his back, not the barrel of his gun.

I get the anti-SYG comments and opinions. But as a responsible, sensible gunner in the People's Republic, the lack of SYG puts me in a very poor position, and highly likely to die or go to jail for a long damn time if I'm ever in a shooting scenario.

Quote: Face

No offense intended...but due to our history of communication, I have pigeonholed you not as "anti", but leaning toward. Too bad. I'd be glad to have your brand of common sense on the gunner side.

Funny thing is, my brother is on the other side of the issue. I could send him over here. : ) (we don't argue over politics though, or much else really; makes for more peaceful relations)