natural born Citizen

No person except a natural born Citizen, or a Citizen of the United States, at the time of the Adoption of this Constitution, shall be eligible to the Office of President; neither shall any Person be eligible to that Office who shall not have attained to the Age of thirty-five Years, and been fourteen Years a Resident within the United States.

This clause in the constitution is getting more and more ridiculous by the year. I say we junk it completely, Although most proposals call for a replacing it with the requirement that someone be a citizen for 20 years, I think even that point is unnecessary. If there comes a point in American politics when someone who has been a citizen for 12 years can must the political clout to be elected, then who will it hurt.

Want to update that legislation about illegal detention of a carrier pigeon belonging to the US Army Signal Corps also. They use radios now and don't own any pigeons. No great need to go rushing about changing the law though.

Fourteen years is a reasonable residency period. I don' t know of any major politicians who want to run but are presently residing in some other country.

Not much pressure on this issue. Too costly to open up a can of worms anyway.

Quote: Pacomartin

This clause in the constitution is getting more and more ridiculous by the year. I say we junk it completely, Although most proposals call for a replacing it with the requirement that someone be a citizen for 20 years, I think even that point is unnecessary. If there comes a point in American politics when someone who has been a citizen for 12 years can must the political clout to be elected, then who will it hurt.

Rubbish. How many countries let immigrants be in the top executive post? Yes, I l know about Catherine the Great and a few others, I don't care. Do we really want someone to come in and be able to take over like that? It simply makes sense that to lead a country you should be born there, which is why the founders put the clause in there.

And I don't care who says I am "racist" for thinking this way.

Is this about that Canadian, Ted Cruz?

Quote: s2dbaker

Is this about that Canadian, Ted Cruz?

Looks like it might be, a lot of racists on the left think he is not a real citizen.

Quote: s2dbaker

Is this about that Canadian, Ted Cruz?

Certainly.

I just think that the circumstances of Ted Cruz's birth in Canada, John McCain's birth in Panama, and Barack Obama's unclear records are relevant to 21st century USA. They are not relevant to any other government position.

While I agree that a recent immigrant is not likely to win the Presidential election, it doesn't seem as if it is necessary to have a constitutional rule to worry about these things. Let the election make the decision. While the framers of the constitution were very concerned about a foreign power taking over the new country, that concern has not been realistic in at least a century and a half.

When Arnold was governor of California, there was a joke going around about the Governor of the Mexican state of Baja California and the US State of California. You could tell the Baja governor because he was the one who spoke clearer English.

Arnold Schwarzenegger became a citizen in his mid 30's,but was living in the USA since he was a young man. He ran for governor roughly 30 years later.

Quote: Pacomartin

Certainly.

I just think that the circumstances of Ted Cruz's birth in Canada, John McCain's birth in Panama, and Barack Obama's unclear records are relevant to 21st century USA. They are not relevant to any other government position.

What was the problem with John McCain's birth? He was born to US parents in a US territory. This fact was never hidden. Obama's birth has some more legit questions--that HI governor saying he knew the parents to vouch for him sounded kind of unbelievable--he did eventually show his birth certificate, as all candidates should before they are confirmed to be on the ballot.

Quote: AZDuffman

What was the problem with John McCain's birth?

There is no problem in my opinion, but there was a bill passed in the US Senate recognizing that he is a "natural born citizen". So the issue had to be addressed by US law.

Presumably someone will propose such a bill for Ted Cruz.

Piyush "Bobby" Jindal is mentioned as a possible candidate. His mother was halfway through her pregnancy when she immigrated to the USA, so Bobby was born in Louisiana. Had she immigrated 6 months later Bobby Jindal could not legally run for president.

I don't think most voters could care less if Jindal's mother immigrated before or after Bobby's birth, and I don't think the law should care either.

Quote: Pacomartin

There is no problem in my opinion, but there was a bill passed in the US Senate recognizing that he is a "natural born citizen". So the issue had to be addressed by US law.

Partly because Americans are woefully ignorant of their own laws. Not that this is peculiar to Americans, but you tend to be more vociferous about matters of nationality at birth, and it tends to become global news as well.

In general there are two ways to establish birth nationality: by place of birth and by "blood" (meaning by descent). These can, adn do, avry by country. For example, in Mexico both apply. That is, if you're born in Mexican territory or are descended from at least one Mexican parent, then you're Mexican by birth. In some European countries only "blood" applies. I think this is so in Germany (it was so in the 90s).

The "blood" rule can extend quite far, too. I found out recently I could apply for Polish citizenship on the grounds that my maternal grandparents and great-grandparents were Polish. What's more, I could obtain it without ever setting foot in Poland.

Anyway, as far as I know, in the US one is considered american by birth if one is born in US territory (and this can mean in an america-flagged ship or airplane, an embassy, a possesion, etc.) or has one American parent. If all this is so, then it doesn't matter that McCain was born in Panama (especially if he was born in the Canal Zone, which at the time was US territory), nor would it matter if Obama had been born in Kenya (but he was born in Hawaii).

Quote: Nareed

Anyway, as far as I know, in the US one is considered american by birth if one is born in US territory (and this can mean in an america-flagged ship or airplane, an embassy, a possesion, etc.) or has one American parent. If all this is so, then it doesn't matter that McCain was born in Panama (especially if he was born in the Canal Zone, which at the time was US territory), nor would it matter if Obama had been born in Kenya (but he was born in Hawaii).

McCain's citizenship from birth was never in question. It has been established through countless precedents that if you are born in the hospital in the canal zone then you are a citizen. In this case the principal of "jus soli" (right of soil) is established. Much to the dismay of some people, the right of "jus soli" has been upheld by courts for every person, regardless of the status of their parents. One of the more tempting cases was the soldier who was held as prisoner of war in Cuba after the Afghanistan war. He requested as a citizen to be transferred to the mainland. His claim of citizenship was because he had born on US soil. The fact that his parents were not citizens, and he had left the country never to return when only a few months old were considered irrelevant by the US Supreme court. They ordered that he be imprisoned as a citizen who had to be charged with a crime, and not treated like a POW.

Eligibility for Presidency is not the same thing as being a citizen. The legal precedents are almost non-existent. It has never been determined definitively by a court whether a person who acquired U.S. citizenship by birth abroad to U.S. citizens is a natural-born citizen within the meaning of Article II of the Constitution and, therefore, eligible for the Presidency.

In all other areas of life in the USA, the difference between a natural born citizen and a naturalized citizen is recognized purely for statistical purposes. It should not affect your formal legal standing in any way.